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Old 09-08-2004, 03:18 PM
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Default Surprise - Not all of Bush's records were released...

Lawsuit uncovers Bush Guard records
Wednesday, September 8, 2004 Posted: 2239 GMT (0639 HKT)


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Months after insisting it could find no more records of President Bush's Air National Guard service, the Defense Department has released more than two dozen pages of files, including Bush's report card for flight training and dates of his flights.

The records, released under pressure of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press, show Bush ranked in the middle of his 1969 flight training class and flew 336 hours for the Texas Air National Guard, mostly in the F-102A fighter.

The Pentagon and Bush's campaign have claimed for months that all records detailing his fighter pilot career have been made public, but defense officials acknowledged Tuesday they had found two dozen new records detailing his training and flight logs after the AP sued and submitted new requests under the public records law.

"Previous requests from other requesters for President Bush's Individual Flight Records did not lead to the discovery of these records because at the time President Bush left the service, flight records were subject to retention for only 24 months and we understood that neither the Air Force nor the Texas Air National Guard retained such records thereafter," the Pentagon told the AP.

"Out of an abundance of caution," the government "searched a file that had been preserved in spite of this policy" and found the Bush records, the letter said. "The Department of Defense regrets this oversight during the previous search efforts."

Bush's Vietnam-era service in the Texas Air National Guard has become an issue in the presidential campaign as the candidates spar over who would make the best commander in chief. Supporters of Democratic nominee John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam combat veteran, have criticized Bush for serving stateside in the National Guard. Kerry's Republican critics claim Kerry did not deserve some of his five medals.

A group called Texans for Truth planned to launch an ad this week in which a lieutenant colonel in the Alabama Air National Guard questions Bush's absence from his National Guard service in Montgomery, Alabama. The group says it plans to spend about $100,000 to run the ad.

The ad asks "Was George W. Bush AWOL in Alabama?" and implores: "Tell us whom you served with Mr. President."

In the ad, Bob Mintz claims he served at the same air base and in the same unit as Bush in 1972 but never saw Bush there. "It would be impossible to be unseen in a unit of that size," Mintz says in the ad. "AWOL" stands for Absent Without Leave.

Bush has said repeatedly he is proud of his Air National Guard service. As late as last week, White House spokesmen said the administration knew of no other records of Bush's military service.

"These documents confirm that the president served honorably in the National Guard," White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said Tuesday night.

Democratic National Committee communications director Jano Cabrera disagreed. "For months George Bush told the nation that all his military records were public," he said. "Now we know why Bush was trying so hard to withhold these records. When his nation asked him to be on call against possible surprise attacks, Bush wasn't there."

The newly released records show Bush, a lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard, ranked No. 22 in a class of 53 pilots when he finished his flight training at Moody Air Force Base in Georgia in 1969.

Over the next three years, he logged 326.4 hours as a pilot and an additional 9.9 hours as a co-pilot, mostly in the F-102A jet used to intercept enemy aircraft. Of the 278 hours he flew in the interceptor, about 77 hours were in the TF-102A, the two-seat trainer version of the one-seat fighter jet.

The records show his last flight was in April 1972, which is consistent with pay records indicating Bush had a lapse of duty between April and October of that year. Bush has said he had permission to go to Alabama in 1972 to work on an unsuccessful Republican Senate campaign. Bush skipped a required medical exam that cost him his pilot's status in August of that year.

Bush's 2000 campaign suggested the future president skipped his medical exam in part because the F-102A was nearly obsolete. Records show Bush's Texas unit flew the F-102A until 1974 and used the jets as part of an air defense drill during 1972.

A six-month historical record of his 147th Fighter Interceptor Group, also turned over to the AP on Tuesday, shows some of the training Bush missed with his colleagues during that time.

It showed the unit joined a "24-hour active alert mission to safeguard against surprise attack" in the southern United States beginning on Oct. 6, 1972, a mission for which Bush was not present, according to his pay records.

Bush's lone service in October was outside Texas, presumably with an Alabama unit he had permission to train with in September, October and November 1972.

As part of the mission, the 147th kept two F-102A jets -- the same type Bush flew before he was grounded -- on ready alert to be launched within five minutes' warning.

The records also show Bush made a grade of 88 on total airmanship and a perfect 100 for flying without navigational instruments, operating a T-38 System and studying applied aerodynamics. Other scores ranged from 89 in flight planning to 98 in aviation physiology.

The newly released records do not include any from five categories of documents Bush's commanders had been required to keep in response to the gaps in Bush's training in 1972 and 1973. For example, National Guard commanders were required to perform an investigation whenever any pilot skipped a medical exam and forward the results up the Air Force chain of command. No such documents have surfaced. (Bush military file lacks required records)

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLIT...h.national.ap/
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:10 AM
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Default Disengenuous Hypocrites

Bush has consistently said that the Pentagon and Defense Dept. have his permission to release anything they find. Remember there are tons of archived records. And that's far more than John Kerry has done. He refuses to sign the Standard Form 180 that gives permission for all his military to be released. And yet......the liberal press sits silent on that issue. No lawsuits there I notice.....
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:07 PM
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Default I think you missed the point

If new records were found, it wasn't because they weren't authorized for release. President Bush authorized the release for all his records months ago. The only reason why new ones are just now surfacing is because of sloppy archiving or reasons outside of his control.

Now Kerry, on the other hand... is an entirely different matter. He won't sign form 180 and therefore we'll never know what it is he's hiding.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:47 PM
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Default Dick Cheney's records????

"He refuses to sign the Standard Form 180 that gives permission for all his military to be released."

where are Dick's energy records????? did he have "other priorities" like he did during Vietnam?
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:52 PM
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Default who cares...

Is this really a pertinant issue? I mean come on.. Who cares what happened 20 or more years ago.. I dont know a single person that wouldnt be blasted by the media for something that happened so long ago.. Forget the past.. Does his blunderous military history mean we cancel out what hes done as commander in chief last 3 years?
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Old 09-10-2004, 07:55 AM
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Default ...

Clinton was a draft dodger, and liberals didnt seem to care about that....what Bush did was certainly not nearly that bad, so why is he being criticized when Clinton was not?

Can you say "Double Standard"?
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Old 09-10-2004, 08:10 AM
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Default but they were fakes

Anyone catch that?
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Old 09-10-2004, 03:22 PM
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Default Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinniped";p=&quot View Post
Anyone catch that?
I also heard on the radio this morning that Democrats are accusing Republicans of planting the fake documents. (Sorry, I quick-searched the Internet and can't find anything about it.) I'll keep searchin'....
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Old 09-10-2004, 03:44 PM
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Default Says who?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinniped";p=&quot View Post
Anyone catch that?
..the only thing fake is the swaggering bravado being displayed by the Coward-In-Chief...

And for all of you that don't understand why it was okay for President Clinton to have avoided the draft and NOT for Lt AWOL it is really very simple...President Clinton didn't play dress up and act like the tough guy declaring "Mission Accomplished" when clearly it was anything but...
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Old 09-10-2004, 03:48 PM
PoliticallyIncorrect PoliticallyIncorrect is offline
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Default ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raina04";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinniped";p=&quot View Post
Anyone catch that?
I also heard on the radio this morning that Democrats are accusing Republicans of planting the fake documents. (Sorry, I quick-searched the Internet and can't find anything about it.) I'll keep searchin'....
Here's a link on that

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3480214

The only thing is the fake claim is not coming from the Col. that signed the memos, it's his son and wife that are claiming that they're fakes. No one that was directly involved has officially stated confirmed this claim is true and it is under investigation.

I guess we'll have to wait and see
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