What Hillary supporters Heard Last Night - Page 2

Mellon Collie · #11 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whaler17

"I (Hillary) am the historically significant candidate in this race"
"John McCain is my friend" but Obama is presumed not by omission.
"We should vote for Obama because the party wants us to"

What McCain supporters heard:

"We should continue my failed fight for nationalized health care even though I got nowhere with it after 8 years working on it in the White House"

"We should encourage unionization, and we should stop jobs from going overseas" - WHat? Completely illogical!

"Obama is our candidate but I can't say anything to convince you he would be a good or great President"

How does unionization make jobs go oversea? Your argument has no foundation.

Whaler17 · #12 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 06:45 AM

Bill says Obama can't deliver on his promises.
Hillary says She herself is the historically significant figure in this race and is the one who has been working on the issues that matter to Democrats for years and years, not Obama.

And they are both right, although I am certainly not a Clinton fan!

Whaler17 · #13 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mellon Collie

How does unionization make jobs go oversea? Your argument has no foundation.

How could it not!!!!

Unions always drive the cost of labor up!
Why do jobs go overseas? because labor costs less there right?

So how could they not!

farmer_fred · #14 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whaler17

How could it not!!!!

Unions always drive the cost of labor up!
Why do jobs go overseas? because labor costs less there right?

So how could they not!

Instead of simply bleating, support something you claim.

Whaler17 · #15 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmer_fred

Instead of simply bleating, support something you claim.

Logic supports my claim!
All thinking Americans know its true, so there is no need to dredge up statistics.

Any thinking people out there care to weigh in?

Southpaw · #16 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmer_fred

Instead of simply bleating, support something you claim.

It does seem rather logical that unions drive up the cost of labor and companies are always looking for cheaper sources of labor.

Therefore, unions probably do have the effect of outsourcing more jobs.

Do you have evidence to prove that this seemingly simple and obvious connection is not correct?

farmer_fred · #17 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

It does seem rather logical that unions drive up the cost of labor and companies are always looking for cheaper sources of labor.

Therefore, unions probably do have the effect of outsourcing more jobs.

Do you have evidence to prove that this seemingly simple and obvious connection is not correct?

Yes I do:

Quote:

For the first time in the past quarter of a century, in 2007 U.S. unions increased their share of membership among workers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ (BLS) annual union membership report released today. Unions added about 310,000 members last year, raising the unionized share of the workforce to 12.1 percent from 12.0 percent in 2006.

The increase is small, and may well reflect statistical variation rather than an actual increase in the union membership share, but the uptick is striking because it is the first time since the BLS began collecting annual union membership rates in 1983 that the union share has increased.

The small national rise in union membership rates reflected a large increase in union membership in California, partially offset by substantial declines in the Midwest.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/data-b...rease-in-2007/

Quote:

For all those in the US who were shouting themselves hoarse about the evils of globalization, there’s some good news. The manufacturing jobs that were lost to the countries in Asia may just return. No, I am not kidding. I think we are just past that bend where companies might evaluate moving manufacturing & other outsourced services back to US. That’s the good news. The not so good news is it will not happen overnight. It will take some time. Ceteris paribus, I expect it to see the first trickle in the reverse direction in 7 to 10 years. Here’s why I think so.

http://www.iqi-sm.com/blog/index.php...the-us-part-1/

Using your own "aww shucks" logic: As transportation costs increase, the savings afforded by cheap labor half a world away decreases or goes away, depending on the product, making US jobs more attractive. The weak dollar has a similar effect.

Prove me wrong.

Whaler17 · #18 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmer_fred

Yes I do:

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/data-b...rease-in-2007/

http://www.iqi-sm.com/blog/index.php...the-us-part-1/

Using your own "aww shucks" logic: As transportation costs increase, the savings afforded by cheap labor half a world away decreases or goes away, depending on the product, making US jobs more attractive. The weak dollar has a similar effect.

Prove me wrong.

A preidiction by someone that transportation costs will cause jobs to come back is not proof! Until transportation costs overcome unionization costs , those jobs will NOT move back.

This guy never said that he predicted that to happen now did he!

"Aw shucks"

Show me proof that transportation costs + cheaper overseas labor > American labor + Unionization costs!

Southpaw · #19 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmer_fred

Yes I do:

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/data-b...rease-in-2007/

http://www.iqi-sm.com/blog/index.php...the-us-part-1/

Using your own "aww shucks" logic: As transportation costs increase, the savings afforded by cheap labor half a world away decreases or goes away, depending on the product, making US jobs more attractive. The weak dollar has a similar effect.

Prove me wrong.

Your 'proof' absolutely sucks, to be quite honest. The first link only discusses the percentage of jobs that were unionized and then blatantly admits that manufacturing unionized jobs were down to 11.3% in 2007.

Your second link of 'proof' was a BLOG about Canadian businesses and the effects of the weak dollar on them.

This time, try coming with real proof, not two totally disparate sources which don't mesh at all and don't prove your point.

Try again, please.

Whaler17 · #20 (**permalink**) 08-27-2008, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Your 'proof' absolutely sucks, to be quite honest. The first link only discusses the percentage of jobs that were unionized and then blatantly admits that manufacturing unionized jobs were down to 11.3% in 2007.

Your second link of 'proof' was a BLOG about Canadian businesses and the effects of the weak dollar on them.

This time, try coming with real proof, not two totally disparate sources which don't mesh at all and don't prove your point.

Try again, please.

He simply doesn't have anything!

There is no logical argument against my assertion that the high cost of labor unions drives jobs overseas. Anyone alive in the past decade saw that very thing happening!

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