Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > General Political Chat > Elections & Campaigns


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 09:43 AM
formerroadie's Avatar
formerroadie formerroadie is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 3,715
formerroadie has a brilliant futureformerroadie has a brilliant futureformerroadie has a brilliant futureformerroadie has a brilliant futureformerroadie has a brilliant futureformerroadie has a brilliant futureformerroadie has a brilliant futureformerroadie has a brilliant futureformerroadie has a brilliant futureformerroadie has a brilliant futureformerroadie has a brilliant future
Credits: 13,382
Default McCain: Economy is Strong After Liehman Downfall

This is just one more example of how this guy is so out of touch with reality.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...-still-strong/
__________________
“Share everything with your brother. Do not say, ‘It is private property.’ If you share what is everlasting, you should be that much more willing to share things which do not last.”
~ The Didache

"Not to enable the poor to share in our goods is to steal from them and deprive them of life. The goods we possess are not ours, but theirs."
~St. John Chrysostom
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 02:55 PM
Birdzeye's Avatar
Birdzeye Birdzeye is online now
Analyst
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,083
usa us maryland
Birdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud of
Credits: 8,383
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
This is just one more example of how this guy is so out of touch with reality.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...-still-strong/
What is McCain smoking? Maybe he should elaborate on why he believes the economy is "strong." I sure don't believe it right now.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 02:58 PM
submarinepainter's Avatar
submarinepainter submarinepainter is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 6,761
usa us maine
submarinepainter has a reputation beyond reputesubmarinepainter has a reputation beyond reputesubmarinepainter has a reputation beyond reputesubmarinepainter has a reputation beyond reputesubmarinepainter has a reputation beyond reputesubmarinepainter has a reputation beyond reputesubmarinepainter has a reputation beyond reputesubmarinepainter has a reputation beyond reputesubmarinepainter has a reputation beyond reputesubmarinepainter has a reputation beyond reputesubmarinepainter has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 96,927
Default

you guys do not think the foundation for our economy is sound??
__________________
Aint but three things in this world thats worth a solitary dime,
But old dogs and children and watermelon wine.
Tom T. Hall
http://www.politicalforum.com/group.php?groupid=43
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 02:59 PM
Birdzeye's Avatar
Birdzeye Birdzeye is online now
Analyst
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,083
usa us maryland
Birdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud ofBirdzeye has much to be proud of
Credits: 8,383
Default

Why should we?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:02 PM
giminy123 giminy123 is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 173
giminy123 has a spectacular aura aboutgiminy123 has a spectacular aura aboutgiminy123 has a spectacular aura about
Credits: 1,034
Default

He was discussing the foundation of the economy. On the other hand, that is a pretty blanket statement because you can make the case that the foundation of any economy is strong up until they're in a depression. McCain already admitted he doesn't know much about the economy though, so I wouldn't take much stock into what he says regarding it.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:05 PM
The Jovial One's Avatar
The Jovial One The Jovial One is online now
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 6,270
The Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 152,776
Default

When you look back at the history of this campaign, this may be the day that Obama/Biden effectively won this election. McCain says the economy is sound, yet the stock market takes a 500-pt. crap.

How Obama/Biden plays this over the next few days should make the difference.
__________________
"If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible, who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time, who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer."
--President-elect Barack Obama
November 5, 2008
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:08 PM
giminy123 giminy123 is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 173
giminy123 has a spectacular aura aboutgiminy123 has a spectacular aura aboutgiminy123 has a spectacular aura about
Credits: 1,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
When you look back at the history of this campaign, this may be the day that Obama/Biden effectively won this election. McCain says the economy is sound, yet the stock market takes a 500-pt. crap.

How Obama/Biden plays this over the next few days should make the difference.
It wasn't the smartest thing to say. When he said it, his audience was speechless. He had to catch himself real fast and talk about how he was going to take on "Washington as usual" or some other canned line -- which then garnered applause.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:08 PM
The Jovial One's Avatar
The Jovial One The Jovial One is online now
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 6,270
The Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond reputeThe Jovial One has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 152,776
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by giminy123 View Post
It wasn't the smartest thing to say. When he said it, his audience was speechless. He had to catch himself real fast and talk about how he was going to take on "Washington as usual" or some other canned line -- which then garnered applause.
And then he changed it again, to say he was talking about "American Workers."

Pitiful.
__________________
"If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible, who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time, who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer."
--President-elect Barack Obama
November 5, 2008
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:16 PM
jhffmn's Avatar
jhffmn jhffmn is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,061
jhffmn is a jewel in the roughjhffmn is a jewel in the roughjhffmn is a jewel in the roughjhffmn is a jewel in the rough
Credits: 5,326
Default

The foundation of our economy is strong. We are in the middle of a credit crisis due (in my oppinion) a combination of failed regulation enforcing quotas in mortgage loans and the federal reserve artificially keeping interest rates low.

What we need now is leadership to speak over the doom and gloom crowd and promote pro growth policies. We also need reform over the financial markets.

The partisan hacks playing the blame game are just wrong, there are issues from all sides. This is an issue of failed intervention and regulation, we need someone brave enough to stand up to this nonsense. Someone brave enough to work accross party lines and reform corrupt politicians on both sides.

We need McCain/Palin. We need adults in charge again.

Last edited by jhffmn; 09-15-2008 at 03:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:31 PM
Pro Deus Et Patria's Avatar
Pro Deus Et Patria Pro Deus Et Patria is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 3,437
usa
Pro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant futurePro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant futurePro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant futurePro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant futurePro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant futurePro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant futurePro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant futurePro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant futurePro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant futurePro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant futurePro Deus Et Patria has a brilliant future
Credits: 18,993
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by submarinepainter View Post
you guys do not think the foundation for our economy is sound??
No, I do not. But let's preface this by indicating that there are a variety of ways to define what are the fundamentals of an economy.

For instance, McCain has very recently (today?) been quoted as indicating that he defines this by workers; that we have American workers and since American workers are strong, then our economy is fundamentally strong.

Even by this definition, our economy is not strong. Workers are taking hits left and right in today's economy and have been for 6-8 years; in particular, starting with the recession of 2001 and flowing into today's recession.

Economists have very specific measures that represent a more "official" list of economic fundamentals. I will not relay them here.

Personally, I regard the fundamentals to revolve around money and how it moves through and around us:

1. Production
2. Consumption (non-vital)
3. Income
4. Expenditures
5. Credit
6. Investment

Production is most generally measured by GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Our GDP has been rising quarter by quarter, which in and of itself is a good thing. More on this later...

Consumption is down. People have cut back on non-essential purchases and entertainment due to rising energy prices impacting gasoline, food and shipping costs. Secondary effects are felt in restaurant, tourism, airlines and other entertainment venues. There's an all-around hit in this space. Consumption is also moderated when there are lots of job losses, which is exactly what we've experienced this year in particular. So far, the last count I heard was a 605,000 jobs lost this year, 2.2 million in the last 12 months. Despite production being higher (GDP), consumption is down which in part means inventories are swelling; there is something fundamentally wrong with that (a very unsustainable path).

Income growth has either dropped sharply or is in the negative, depending on the source you look at. Best estimate I've seen is that income rose slightly, while other sources have shown income actually dropped. Either way, it's bad because income is not where it should be with the GDP growth that has been experienced. Since incomes normally rise in a general manner with GDP increases, this twist constitutes something fundamentally wrong.

For expenditures (paying essential things like bills), the same downward pressures identified as the reason for drops in non-essential consumption are exacerbated by a rise in another key expenditure item - health care. Over recent years, benefits have receded in availability from employers, forcing individuals to get independent plans if they can afford them. These plans are increasingly aggressive on not covering pre-existing conditions. Overall, rising health care costs and financially unreliable or non-existent health care plans are interacting to cause a lot of serious problems. For instance, according to AARP, 1.85 million people declare bankruptcy each year due entirely to overwhelming medical costs. There is something fundamentally wrong with people's day-to-day expenses are completely destroying their financial viability.

Credit has contracted. American's love affair with credit cards was bad enough, but now leverage room in this sector is contracting. Worst of all, the predatory/fraudulent lending and real estate bust of recent years has sent credit companies rolling on the ground in flames while domestic and international investors have receded in a major way. This adds up to an environment where lending is restricted, and borrowing is expensive. We can point to the record-breaking bailout of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae which together constitute around 60% of America's home inventory. This has a cooling effect on business and individual growth, which means there's something fundamentally wrong with this necessary instrument of growth in the American economy.

Investments wraps around into much of the above. The credit crisis has investors recoiling. Poor availability and high expense of credit has the real estate crisis remaining in disrepair. Investors are retreating from corporations now having major financial contractions due to the slowdowns in consumption. Generally, when the stock market dives over and over for months that means there are some fundamentally wrong things happening in the economy (down 500 points today!).

Let's get back to production. The GDP has been rising. Rising GDP implies we shouldn't be taking the hits we're taking in income, consumption, and employment. But we are? Doesn't that sound like there's something fundamentally wrong?

Now, we have the weirdest of things going on - the price of oil on the commodity markets is falling. Under normal conditions, the rising tensions in Nigeria, the hurricane that took down operation of platforms in the Gulf, and threats by OPEC to reduce supply would be driving the price UP! But instead, oil is down today. This bodes VERY BADLY that consumption can offset upward motivators like this.

So, McCain thinks the fundamentals of the economy are strong because Americans' are badass workers? He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. If Senator McCain couldn't write the paragraphs I just wrote, what is he doing claiming he knows what's going on and that he is not "out of touch?"
__________________
Viator
Pro Deus Et Patria - For God & Country
http://prodeusetpatria.blogspot.com

Proud voter for President-Elect Barack Obama

Last edited by Pro Deus Et Patria; 09-15-2008 at 03:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
McCain & Airbus, Democrats Strong Advantage .... McCain’s Political Demise? nlytend Current Events 11 07-09-2008 12:26 PM
McCain on the Economy/Dem Tax plans DuH2 Elections & Campaigns 8 04-15-2008 08:33 PM
McCain Coming on Strong with Me JP5 Elections & Campaigns 6 10-26-2007 11:52 AM
Strong & Epanding Economy JP5 Economics & Trade 287 10-30-2006 12:42 PM

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden