I'm rather tired of how everyone on this board is either pro Bush/Kerry and vehemontly supports the other candidate, never claiming mistake on their own candidate.

Many people are very rude (I'm guilty as well) and throw around Bush/Kerry bashing like yesterday's newspaper.

So I would like to start a normal debate about Kerry and Bush here. One where we are kind, and dont bash the candidates, dont say things like "He's DUMB, " "STUPID LIBERAL/CONSERVATIVE!,"

So, If you'll join me i'll start with the following items.

Many people I know (not in the forum) dislike Kerry for the following reasons.

He's an elitist snob and a stupid liberal.
How can anyone really know that he's an elistist snob, we've never met him.
Why does being a liberal automatically make him the devil.
Bush is one as well, he's rich too, but to me, the difference is that Kerry, for all his faults, has had to work long and hard to get to where he is today.
What does b eing elitist have to do with being a good president?

He didnt vote for the 87 billion dollar bill.
This I I agree with. I used to defend him on this (no way to pay for it) but then I realized he goofed, once you're in a war, you gotta pay for it.

He's a flip-flopper.
true, this is a problem.
But, this is the political game, and everyone does it (he more thasn others apparantly).
I've read COUNTLESS statements and examples of Bush changing his opinions of stuff, and doing the opposite of what he said he would.

The draft.
I don't believe either will install the draft. it would be a political disaster. Plus, each would rather remove troops from Iraq rather than have a draft.

Kerry has no economic plan.
I read in the ecnomist (and I implore you not throw out LIBERALS and EUROPEANS!!!) that said that Kerry's economic plan is better than Bush's.
And to me, out of common sense, how can giving people tax cuts, and then spending crap loads on military spending.

Kerry has no plan for Iraq.
Partially true, but neither does Bush.
But, my outlook on life tells me that when the motives for a war are proved false AND the opposite of what was expected to happen in the postwar period happens, someone must be held accountable. If this were a business, the chief executive would fired immediately if you he made such a big problem.

War on terror.
Simply put, it seems to me, anyone can see that North Kora and Iran have always been and still are the most dangerous countries in the world - to the US - but Bush has used all of America's resources in Iraq. I dont understand. I feel, that they are more powerful than before, and he should be held accountable.

But I dont hold 9/11 against him.

Now, my problems with Bush.

I view Bush, without BASHING him him, as an uncultured, unlearned, untraveled individual. I dont believe that Bush know much history, geography, geoplitics. I dont beleive he has a good understand of economics, whether I or you agree with his economic policies. And, I generally dont believe he understands the cultures and peoples of the the world. Thats just my view, based of his politices and decisions. BUT, I'm not going to throw out, "HE"S A FRIGGIN MOROOOON!!!!"

Bush seems like more average guy. I dont see why this is important. As Bill Maher said "The president should be an exceptional person." (I know many of you hate him)

Kerry is a liberal.
I'll right, I'll give you that. But only because conservatives have a different view of how a country should be involved. I dont excuse people who believe all liberals are demons, as if liberals have never done any good to this country.

Their wives -> I could care less.
Laura doesnt appeal to me, because she reminds of a stepford wife, housewife, quiet, and soccer mom.

Teresa, she can be a witch. But at least she's a traveled person.

Simply put, Kerry seems to me as an exceptional person. For all his faults, Kerry has spent his life working hard to get to where he has been and has vehemontly campaigned for his beliefs, though many of us can critique him on those.

I don't like that fact that Bush is a VERY religious person and applies his religious beliefs to his presidency. Thats just my morals, and it would take me too long to explain my reasoning behind this opinion I lots of text).

For me, Bush seems to be an individual who had not accomplished much before his presidency, and it is my opinion, from what I know of his life, that in general, everything was handed to him on a platter.

BUT, I don't HATE him. I've never met him, and dont know him. I simply dislike his policies.

Now, I hope this works. I hope everyone who joins me here is calm, unrude, and does not throw endless bashing at the opponent.

We must remember that the point of debate is to convert your opponent to your belief..

"the difference is that Kerry, for all his faults, has had to work long and hard to get to where he is today. "

answer... Kerry married or inherited his money... unless you think he got rich enough to run for Senate off a naval reserve salary or as a prosecutor... Kerry has married two rich women and his family has money...
Due to being entitled to half of THK's money Kerry is the richest presidential candidate in history and he MARRIED into it...

"He didnt vote for the 87 billion dollar bill"

Firstly, I want one of those dollar bills.... second, even Ted Kennedy and HJillary Clinton told him not to vote against that but Kerry did anyway. And if you think it was about the money you may be right but i think he voted as a protest of the war... He has used both our positions to justify his vote...

"He's a flip-flopper. "

Rarely do US senators have a snowball's chance due to this very fact... Believe it or not, I tend to be ready to defend Kerry's "flip-flopping" because I understand parlimentary procedure and understand how and why senators have to vote as they do... However, Kerry should NOT have been flip-flopping DURING the campaign for President... How hard is it to pick a handfull of stances and stick by them? Kerry changes as the polling numbers or campaign stop changes.... we call it pandering.... Kerry calls it campaigning....

"The draft. "

Charlie Rangel's proposal and he did NOT VOTE for it..... Rangel proposed the bill to protest "racism" in an attempt to garner a few more votes for Al Sharpton..... but Bush is accused of attempting to bring back the draft....

"Kerry's economic plan is better than Bush's"

Listen, I am going to try to be civil about this.... Kerry's plan is similar to Clinton's... Kerry will raise the taxes on the "rich"(those making 200k or more) but that substrata of our civilization cannot provide enough tax revenue to fund even a quarter of Kerry's plan... so what will Kerry do? He will do as Clinton did.. HE WILL LOWER THE "STANDARD" OF THE WORD "RICH"... Clinton's standard was 80k a year... where will Kerry stop his standard? Also, the "rich" are not who you think they are... remember Kerry saying that only 3 people at the second debate would be affected? I say that is wrong... my estimate would be maybe 10 or more people at that debate... 200k is NOT a lot of money for a family to make in a year.... but democrats think that only the "rich" like Bill Gates or Micheal Jordan will get taxed... WRONG!

"Kerry has no plan for Iraq."

Sure he does!!! It is called the Bush plan... with half the carbs!!!! If you are as informed as you insinuate then you can state to me the four points of Kerry's plan.... If you cannot for what ever reason you can find his plan here: www.bushcheney.com


"War on terror"

Yet again, the Clinton plan..... give uranium to North Korea... give uranium to Iran... unilateral talks with North Korea... Treating terrorism like a law enforcement problem... Kerry said today that he wanted terrorism to be treated like it was during the Clinton era... A.K.A. APPEASEMENT....

"But I dont hold 9/11 against him. "

Maybe you should a little bit..... Kerry has statements in the past that refered to the security problems in and around airliner cockpits.... look it up.. you may be surprised... Kerry KNEW that what happened on 9/11 COULD actually happen and HE DID NOTHING! As a matter of fact, what DID Kerry do in the Senate?

"Teresa, she can be a witch"

Are you saying that you prefer a "witch" who is a loose cannon over a "stepford wife"? Tell me, my friend, off the top of your head... can you name ANY OTHER world leader's wife's name? Basically my point is this... the only presidential wife in the world that is consistantly in front of the news media is the first lady and if you think that THK's controversial style is better than Laura's demure style then there is no reason for us to have a "civilized debate".....

__________________
I was banned from godlike productions(over 400 times)... and loved it.

"I haven't made you angry, have I?" -Malcolm Reynolds