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Old 09-24-2008, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by AnitaMiracle View Post
Here's the tax plans, compared.

And here's Obama's actual tax plan.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#tax-relief
And here is the whole story. I like how pointing out the truth is resorting to lying. You Obama nuts have lost your mind.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm1973.cfm

Keep in mind as well, Obama has a record of voting to raise middle class income taxes. Campaign promises be (*)(*)(*)(*)ed. Obama will tax us into a depression.

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Presidential hopeful Senator Barack Obama (D–Ill.) has unveiled his economic plan of raising taxes on the successful. His plan would boost the top marginal rate to well over 55 percent—before the inclusion of state and local taxes—resulting in many individuals seeing their marginal tax rate double. The consequences of this policy would be a return to the bad old days of tax avoidance, with taxpayers disguising personal income as business income or capital gains and the migration of capital from the United States to abroad.

Among the more prominent elements of his tax proposal, Senator Obama would end the Bush tax cuts and allow the top two tax rates to return to 36 and 39.6 percent. He also would allow personal exemptions and deductions to be phased out for those with income over $250,000. The real kicker, though, is that Senator Obama would end the Social Security payroll tax cap for those over $250,000 in earnings. (The cap is currently set at $102,000.) These individuals will then face a tax rate of 15.65 percent from payroll taxes and the top income tax rate of 39.6 percent for a combined top rate of over 56 percent on each additional dollar earned.

High-income individuals will be forced to pay even more if they live in cities or states with high taxes such as New York City, California, or Maryland. These unlucky people would pay over two-thirds of each new dollar in earnings to the federal government.

How the Obama Tax Plan Compares to Other Countries

Senator Obama's new tax rate would give the United States one of the highest tax rates among developed countries. Currently only six of the top 30 industrial nations have a tax rate for all levels of government combined of over 55 percent. Under this tax plan, the United States would join this group and have a higher top rate than such high-tax nations as Sweden and Denmark. The top marginal rate would exceed 60 percent with the inclusion of state and local taxes, which means that only Hungary would exceed Senator Obama's new proposed top tax rate.

The costs in economic terms of such high taxes are real. For example, of the six countries with higher tax rates than 55 percent, the average unemployment rate is 7.35 percent (see chart). This figure includes Denmark, which appears to have a very low unemployment rate of 3.9 percent. However, Denmark spends over 5 percent of its GDP on unemployment programs and benefits, thereby increasing its unemployment rate.[1]

A Return to the Bad Old Days

Historically, Senator Obama's tax rate would be the highest individual tax rate since the Jimmy Carter days. Tax shelters and tax avoidance strategies were common when the top marginal rate was 70 percent or higher. This new top tax rate will again encourage these gimmicks, reducing investment and economic growth as resources are squandered in an attempt to avoid punitive taxation.

Last edited by jhffmn; 09-24-2008 at 08:35 PM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2008, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by raytri View Post
That it ignores other elements of his policies that benefit small businesses;
Yeah, I am sure he will use all the money he takes from us to make us all rich.

That seems to work out well.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:40 PM
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Not sure where all the money is going but one eco guy on CNN said both plans would increase spending, which wasn't acceptable, but McCain would be spending more.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Sly View Post
Not sure where all the money is going but one eco guy on CNN said both plans would increase spending, which wasn't acceptable, but McCain would be spending more.
Hah! Based on what?

Remember this?

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To wit: Sen. Wayne Allard, a Republican from Colorado, has crafted a massive budget amendment that claims to fund every policy proposed by Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on the presidential campaign trail. Allard's amendment — doomed to fail by a significant margin — includes $1.4 trillion in spending over five years.

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Old 09-24-2008, 08:52 PM
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In my opinion the rich SHOULD pay the same percentage in social security tax as the rest of us. Why should part of their income not be taxed while our total income is taxed?

I totally agree with Obama on raising that ceiling. That ceiling is completely unfair.

Why do conservatives want to run our country into the ground with this huge national debt? Bush DOUBLED the debt, it's now 10 trillion dollars, after this bailout. The ceiling is 10.4 billion. Why do conservatives think we can spend money we don't have? The millionaires MUST pay their fair share of taxes. Close the loopholes, and lower the deficit. It's the only responsible way.

Conservatives would rather borrow from their grandchildren than pay their own way.

That's disgraceful.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AnitaMiracle View Post
In my opinion the rich SHOULD pay the same percentage in social security tax as the rest of us. Why should part of their income not be taxed while our total income is taxed?

I totally agree with Obama on raising that ceiling. That ceiling is completely unfair.

Why do conservatives want to run our country into the ground with this huge national debt? Bush DOUBLED the debt, it's now 10 trillion dollars, after this bailout. The ceiling is 10.4 billion. Why do conservatives think we can spend money we don't have? The millionaires MUST pay their fair share of taxes. Close the loopholes, and lower the deficit. It's the only responsible way.

Conservatives would rather borrow from their grandchildren than pay their own way.

That's disgraceful.
I can see it now...McCain sitting in an old rocking chair telling war stories to his grandson.... "Yes son, I was a war hero. Say, would you mind letting me borrow....1trillion dollars? Don't worry son, you'll have your whole life to pay it."
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AnitaMiracle View Post
Here's the tax plans, compared.

And here's Obama's actual tax plan.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#tax-relief

It's such a shame that the Republican partisans have to lie so much. But I guess they have no choice, they'd be mauled in the election if they didn't.
You might as well put zeros next to all the McCain cuts. He won't be cutting taxes. Allow me to introduce you to campaign rhetoric. It is the things politicians say come election time that they have little and sometimes no interest in actually persuing once elected. You need to look at their record and unless their record backs up what they say on the campaign trail, it is just rhetoric. Obama has a lot of campaign rhetoric. McCain has some campaign rhetoric too and one of those is his plans to cut taxes. It is not going to happen, no way, no how, and certainly not with a democratic congress!
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnitaMiracle View Post
In my opinion the rich SHOULD pay the same percentage in social security tax as the rest of us. Why should part of their income not be taxed while our total income is taxed?

I totally agree with Obama on raising that ceiling. That ceiling is completely unfair.

Why do conservatives want to run our country into the ground with this huge national debt? Bush DOUBLED the debt, it's now 10 trillion dollars, after this bailout. The ceiling is 10.4 billion. Why do conservatives think we can spend money we don't have? The millionaires MUST pay their fair share of taxes. Close the loopholes, and lower the deficit. It's the only responsible way.

Conservatives would rather borrow from their grandchildren than pay their own way.

That's disgraceful.
I can see it now...McCain sitting in an old rocking chair telling war stories to his grandson.... "Yes son, I was a war hero. Say, would you mind letting me borrow....1trillion dollars? Don't worry son, you'll have your whole life to pay it."
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AnitaMiracle View Post
In my opinion the rich SHOULD pay the same percentage in social security tax as the rest of us. Why should part of their income not be taxed while our total income is taxed?
Social security was never supposed to be a tax.

Rich should be taxed, but so should the poor. We are already at a point where we have people who don't pay taxes voting for more money from those who do.

Also, when you get past "fairness" you realize it's not in the best interest to excessively burden small business owners. Unless you want people to be poor.

I have this theory. The democratic party's proposal is an engineered defect. You know, like a toaster that is designed to break down so you have to buy another.

Democrats want to bring back the carter years so there are more economically disadvantaged people to vote democrat.
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