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Old 10-03-2008, 09:06 AM
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Default My thoughts on the VP debate

So here's what I saw:

Both candidates did better than expected. Biden was focused and knowledgeable, and Palin didn't freeze up.

It was obvious that Biden's strategy was to all-but-ignore Palin and attack McCain, while Palin's strategy was to all-but-ignore the actual questions and "speak directly to the American people." Indeed, at one point Biden called her for not answering the question, and Palin openly admitted that she wasn't going to. At another point, Gwen asked a question and Palin said "I'd like to talk about energy some more."

So if you were paying attention to that sort of thing, you'd see that Palin failed to answer many of the questions and was giving canned and scripted answers to others. She did handle some answers pretty well, and showed more depth than her media interviews conveyed. But she was obviously going for "likeable." She was so intent on not getting off-script that nearly all of Biden's attacks on McCain went unrebutted.

But for the average viewer, I think they saw two people sparring and neither landing a killing blow. Biden always answered the questions directly and in detail. Palin didn't, but she didn't embarass herself either. So the general impression was that she could hang.

Some detailed comments:

1. I kept wishing Biden would say "Gov. Palin didn't actually answer the question. I'm willing to give her 30 seconds of my time if she will, for once, simply answer the question directly and clearly."

2. Every time there was a complex question, Gwen directed it at Biden first. She did this three times in a row near the end of the debate, rather than alternating between the candidates. This struck me as odd and infuriating: Palin should have had to answer at least one of those questions without getting to hear Biden's answer first.

3. I think Biden chose some odd points to stake strong ground on. The windfall-profits tax is populist, for example, but a small thing that many reasonable people disagree is a good idea. I would have picked stronger points to emphasize.

4. I lost count of the times Palin used the word "maverick." Once or twice would have been effective; after the fifth time she had worn it out, exposing it for the gimmicky phrase it was. I think she lost viewers there.

5. Similarly, it was almost comical the way Palin transparently steered the topic to energy any chance she got. I think she mentioned "energy-producing state" at least five times as well. And like with "maverick", I think it wore out the phrase.

6. Gwen never asked a follow-up question to force Palin to actually answer a question.

7. Speaking of Gwen, does anybody think her performance was in any way biased against Palin? If anything, I think she coddled the governor.

8. The "gay rights" question was the most interesting of the entire night, forcing both candidates to address an issue that plays strongly one way with their bases but another way with the electorate at large.

9. Biden scored an effective hit late in the debate when he nearly choked up talking about his wife's death and his injured kids. That did a great job of canceling out Palin's efforts to claim the "I'm a woman and a mom who understands what you're going through" mantle. I think they both came off as in touch with average people.

10. Anyone else chuckle at Palin repeatedly calling the general in charge of Afghanistan "McClellan"? His real name is McKeirnan. McClellan is the Union general that Lincoln fired because he seemed uninterested in actually fighting the Confederates.

11. Similarly, Biden nearly suffocated trying to get a phrase out at one point -- I can't remember what the actual phrase was!

Given the totally different expectations of the two candidates, I don't think either candidate decisively won or lost. But since Palin had more to lose, she probably came out looking better than she did going in. I don't expect this debate to move the needle very much, but if it does it might move it slightly in McCain's direction.
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:14 AM
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Good post.

Last edited by raytri; 10-03-2008 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Brevity.
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:54 AM
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Another interesting question was the "what is the role of the VP's office?"

While it might be too esoteric a topic for the average viewer to care about, it featured Biden giving a lecture on the constitution and tied VP wannabe Palin to the current scarily unpopular VP, Cheney. Because of the relative obscurity of the issue, I have no idea if it will matter to regular voters. But if it does, the Dems gain.
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:00 AM
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I think in the foreign policy segment, the starkness of each candidate's knowledge was most obvious... but I guess that was expected, so between that and the fact that many look at foreign policy either through a "feeling" manner or as secondary... it seems blunted in all the aftermath.

One thing I think Biden did right that you didn't mention was speak very passionately and specifically on the subject of supporting Israel. That could go a long way toward bringing around some of the Jewish Democrats who might have been iffy about Obama.
Although... I think they might have been starting to lean toward Obama already since the first debate put aside any such fears. It's just that Biden was far more passionate and really drove the point home.
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:18 AM
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Biden was good and clearly showed that he was more knowledgeable, but he didn't go after Palin as hard as he should of. I'm guessing he was being easy on hear so as not to look like a dick. Palin clearly spent the last 8 weeks memorizing answers to every possible question. She looked like she was reading off a teleprompter the entire time. When she hadn't memorized an answer, she simply ignored the question. If the expectation for Palin weren't so low, I would have considered her performance an abject failure. However, giving her clear lack of knowledge on foreign policy and many other issues, she faked it pretty well.
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
If the expectation for Palin weren't so low, I would have considered her performance an abject failure. However, giving her clear lack of knowledge on foreign policy and many other issues, she faked it pretty well.
And I guess if Palin were to somehow rise to the office of President (one in six odds, if McCain is elected), we would have to demand that foreign leaders and our enemies be as gentle with our delicate little Princess/President as we've insisted that the media and her opponents in this election have been.

You know, don't ask her any hard questions or anything requiring thought, and don't expect her to answer the question you asked her.

Good luck with that.
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri View Post
4. I lost count of the times Palin used the word "maverick." Once or twice would have been effective; after the fifth time she had worn it out, exposing it for the gimmicky phrase it was. I think she lost viewers there.
She only used it six times, while Biden used it nine times.
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:59 AM
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She only used it six times, while Biden used it nine times.
The most often used phrase in the debate was "John McCain". My wife was getting sick of it and wanted them to start switching it up with "John" or "Senator McCain" (I offered "Johnny Mac").

Maybe it was to make up for McCain's lack of appearances in crossword puzzles
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri View Post
Another interesting question was the "what is the role of the VP's office?"

While it might be to esoteric a topic for the average viewer to care about, it featured Biden giving a lecture on the constitution and tied VP wannabe Palin to the current scarily unpopular VP, Cheney. Because of the relative obscurity of the issue, I have no idea if it will matter to regular voters. But if it does, the Dems gain.
It was interesting that in trying to make the point that the Vice President works in the Executive Branch, he cites Article 1 of the Constitution, which of course deals with the Legislative Branch.

It it within Article 1 of the Constitution that the vice president is given the single duty to serve as President of the Senate. About that, the Constitution is indeed explicit.

But, I challenge anyone to show me where the Constitution says that "the primary role of the vice president of the United States of America is to support the president of the United States of America, give that president his or her best judgment when sought."

That's Biden's opinion, or summary of how some Vice Presidents have traditionally served in the past, but it's certainly not something "explicit" within the Constitution.

I'd invite Biden to read David McCullough's biography of our first vice president John Adams (or watch the excellent HBO miniseries). Adams' role could hardly be described as an Executive Role. He was almost never involved in policy decisions and rarely asked for advice. He spent the vast majority of his time presiding over the Senate.

During this time, he is famous for the quote:

"My country has in its wisdom contrived for me the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination conceived."
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty View Post
She only used it six times, while Biden used it nine times.
...as in, "McCain is no Maverick..."
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