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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2004, 01:30 PM
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MarkH MarkH is offline
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Default Other choices...

I don't see what other choice is available.

What other authoritative power would you suggest that we act in concert with?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2004, 01:44 PM
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Default Well, that's a new one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FederalistUSA";p=&quot View Post
Kerry is basing his presidental run on leaving the world stage, America stops being a superpower. We become isonaliansts ( like pre WW 1), Kerry decides to let the world do whatever it wants, regardless of the future concaquences. 3 1/2 years into his Presidencey the "New" terriost network is put together and attacks the US. This time we can only turn to the UN for protection (he cut the budget, there is no real US military), the UN waffles because the "New" network has bought them off just like Saddam bought the UN before. America is the battleground, not Iraq. China, France & Russia are glad to watch America slowy turn into a cesspool. This might be a Hawks future vision of weakness, but what happens if the US starts ignoring the world. Pick your own scenario, with what has happened in Kosovo, the Middle east, Old Soviet Union, New Europe. Do any of those past events lead you to believe America should shrink our armed forces or depend on someone else for protection?
John Kerry, Isolationist. Creative I must admit. Wrong, but creative.
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Old 05-03-2004, 02:03 PM
GrizzlyAdam GrizzlyAdam is offline
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Default Wow. Guess you're a Bush supporter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FederalistUSA";p=&quot View Post
Kerry is basing his presidental run on leaving the world stage, America stops being a superpower. We become isonaliansts ( like pre WW 1), Kerry decides to let the world do whatever it wants, regardless of the future concaquences. 3 1/2 years into his Presidencey the "New" terriost network is put together and attacks the US. This time we can only turn to the UN for protection (he cut the budget, there is no real US military), the UN waffles because the "New" network has bought them off just like Saddam bought the UN before. America is the battleground, not Iraq. China, France & Russia are glad to watch America slowy turn into a cesspool. This might be a Hawks future vision of weakness, but what happens if the US starts ignoring the world. Pick your own scenario, with what has happened in Kosovo, the Middle east, Old Soviet Union, New Europe. Do any of those past events lead you to believe America should shrink our armed forces or depend on someone else for protection?
Hi, my name's reality... Have we met?

I don't recall John Kerry talking much about cutting defense spending, or giving away our sovereignty to the UN...or stopping the war on terror. In fact, as I recall, John Kerry voted for the war- something that didn't help him much in the primaries.

What you fail to realize is that it is possible to be committed to strong national security and still find George Bush a under-imformed, under-engaged president who is sacrificing our security by making stupid and fairly predictable mistakes.
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Old 05-03-2004, 02:55 PM
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Default Blind

Quote:
Originally Posted by FederalistUSA";p=&quot View Post
Kerry is basing his presidental run on leaving the world stage, America stops being a superpower. We become isonaliansts ( like pre WW 1), Kerry decides to let the world do whatever it wants, regardless of the future concaquences. 3 1/2 years into his Presidencey the "New" terriost network is put together and attacks the US. This time we can only turn to the UN for protection (he cut the budget, there is no real US military), the UN waffles because the "New" network has bought them off just like Saddam bought the UN before. America is the battleground, not Iraq. China, France & Russia are glad to watch America slowy turn into a cesspool. This might be a Hawks future vision of weakness, but what happens if the US starts ignoring the world. Pick your own scenario, with what has happened in Kosovo, the Middle east, Old Soviet Union, New Europe. Do any of those past events lead you to believe America should shrink our armed forces or depend on someone else for protection?
Bush is the one ignoring the world and see what is happening. We now are being attacked by terrorists daily in Iraq. Terrorists now have people who hate the USA lining up at their door. Oh.. and we have decided that finding and capturing Osama bin Laden, remember the guy that led the group that attacked us, is not a priority, so we removed our intelligence guys and forces dedicated to finding him to more important Iraq.

As far as defense cuts, you do know that the USA spends more on defense than the next 10 largest defense bugets in the world....combined. Somehow, I think shaving a few wasted dollars is not going to hurt our capabilty. And if you are quoting Bush ads, then you have been lied to. But since you are a Bush supporter, I guess you like being lied to.
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:02 PM
FederalistUSA FederalistUSA is offline
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Default UN would fail, with American initiative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard-Driver";p=&quot View Post
Do you want success in forming a democratic Iraq or not. The question is what is the best way to handle Iraq, not was the oil for food program corrupt.

So if you think things are moving fine, then I see why you don't want to change anything. I mean it is not like the people are revolting, support for the USA is dropping and it is costing us billions a month. It is not like there is no plan, I mean we are turning over Iraq in 60 days to some unknown and unspecified government, but everything is planned out well, we just must not be privy to the information.
I have felt for quite a while that something was wrong with the UN / American relationship. I know we have had our up & downs, not always paid money due to the UN, etc.. With all that said, the UN exists because of the US and many times when the UN has acted out against wrong worldwide it was only with massive US help, US leadership, US planning. The oil for food program has been under fire for a while, with the latest showing criminal activity at the top levels of the UN. Why would candidate Kerry want to leave Iraq & leave the very crooks that have lied and stolen large sums of cash in charge of Iraq? I think Iraq would turn into another Somalia, Kosovo or Sudan. You have already seen small, rival warlords trying to carve out their small piece of the Iraqi country. Connect the dots, its small uprisings in Iraq compared to the rest of the country, not nearly as wide spread as some want you to believe. Remember, we were supposed to lose a full division (16000+ troops) in the 1st week of the war. If the US left and the Iraqi people depended on the resolve of Spain, France, Canada, etc. they would be butchered in their sleep. Look at how W. Europe watched Yugoslavia disintegrate into multiple factions and unbelievable killing fields. NATO was given credit for the campaign to end the widespread terror, but it was Clinton deploying large amounts of the US military that accomplished the mission. How far would NATO have gotten without Clinton’s resolve to deploy the US military, with US leadership, US planning, US initiative?
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:06 PM
FederalistUSA FederalistUSA is offline
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Default NATO saves Iraq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkH";p=&quot View Post
I don't see what other choice is available.

What other authoritative power would you suggest that we act in concert with?
I kid you not, NATO. Before you remind me that NATO exists to defend the North Atlantic, NATO has changed. It has morphed from a W. Europe group to much of Europe. Look at the new members - Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Slovenia and Slovakia and Turkey (N of Iraq) has been a long term Islamic member of NATO.

Your end line - You teach a child to read and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.
G Dubya -- Townsend, TN, February 18, 2001. I am from Texas, I hire older people who did not benefit from Dubya’s mandatory pass the tests or don’t advance rule in school program. For all of its drawbacks, kids are performing better and Texas will end up with a better workforce because you can’t move a kid through the system just to move a kid through the system. Perhaps you are from Texas and have seen another side?
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:10 PM
FederalistUSA FederalistUSA is offline
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Default Isolation = small military, no foreign intelligence services

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTruth";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FederalistUSA";p=&quot View Post
Kerry is basing his presidental run on leaving the world stage, America stops being a superpower. We become isonaliansts ( like pre WW 1), Kerry decides to let the world do whatever it wants, regardless of the future concaquences. 3 1/2 years into his Presidencey the "New" terriost network is put together and attacks the US. This time we can only turn to the UN for protection (he cut the budget, there is no real US military), the UN waffles because the "New" network has bought them off just like Saddam bought the UN before. America is the battleground, not Iraq. China, France & Russia are glad to watch America slowy turn into a cesspool. This might be a Hawks future vision of weakness, but what happens if the US starts ignoring the world. Pick your own scenario, with what has happened in Kosovo, the Middle east, Old Soviet Union, New Europe. Do any of those past events lead you to believe America should shrink our armed forces or depend on someone else for protection?
John Kerry, Isolationist. Creative I must admit. Wrong, but creative.
isolationistic - adj : of or relating to isolationism [syn: isolationistic] n : an advocate of isolationism in international affairs. If a president states that the US should only follow the UN lead in world affairs and cuts the military back to a scant force, the president is pulling away from the world and pretending that everything is o.k. If your president pulled the military from NATO, S. Korea, etc.., this would not seem to be the acts of an isolationist? If the same person cut the intelligence gathering capabilities of the US , where we could not see the world affairs developing before us, that’s not isolationism? The guy has a verifiable record of wanting to dismantle the military. Read more.
The 1972 Congressional Campaign, Kerry’s Answer To Ensuring “Country’s Security” Was To Push For “Real Cuts” In Military Spending. QUESTION: “What are your views concerning military spending and your position concerning the country’s security?” KERRY: “It is very important that this country maintain an adequate posture. Threats do exist in the world and they are not going to disappear. But the question really revolves around adequacy. What is an adequate defense that permits the U.S. to defend itself against any real threat?

n 1993, Kerry Introduced Plan To Cut Numerous Defense Programs, Including:
Cut the number of Navy submarines and their crews
Reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one
Reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force
Terminate the Navy’s coastal mine-hunting ship program
Force the retirement of no less than 60,000 members of the Armed Forces in one year. (S.1163, Introduced 6/24/93)

In 1994, Kerry Proposed $45 Billion In Spending Cuts Largely Aimed At Defense And Intelligence Budgets.

If this had happen in 1993 / 94, America would have left the world stage, we would have become a squaking parrot. All talk, no action in world affairs. When the attacks came, we would be inventing the military like we struggled to do in WW1.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2004, 10:13 PM
FederalistUSA FederalistUSA is offline
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Default Kerry all about cutting defense budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdam";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FederalistUSA";p=&quot View Post
Kerry is basing his presidental run on leaving the world stage, America stops being a superpower. We become isonaliansts ( like pre WW 1), Kerry decides to let the world do whatever it wants, regardless of the future concaquences. 3 1/2 years into his Presidencey the "New" terriost network is put together and attacks the US. This time we can only turn to the UN for protection (he cut the budget, there is no real US military), the UN waffles because the "New" network has bought them off just like Saddam bought the UN before. America is the battleground, not Iraq. China, France & Russia are glad to watch America slowy turn into a cesspool. This might be a Hawks future vision of weakness, but what happens if the US starts ignoring the world. Pick your own scenario, with what has happened in Kosovo, the Middle east, Old Soviet Union, New Europe. Do any of those past events lead you to believe America should shrink our armed forces or depend on someone else for protection?
Hi, my name's reality... Have we met?

I don't recall John Kerry talking much about cutting defense spending, or giving away our sovereignty to the UN...or stopping the war on terror. In fact, as I recall, John Kerry voted for the war- something that didn't help him much in the primaries.

What you fail to realize is that it is possible to be committed to strong national security and still find George Bush a under-imformed, under-engaged president who is sacrificing our security by making stupid and fairly predictable mistakes.
Remember his primary ad, he told voters he voted for the war in Iraq before he voted against it? Classic flip flop.
On Kerry cutting defense, he can’t tell you he would do that in the middle of a war, look at his history.
1984 U.S. Senate Campaign, Kerry Proposed Cutting $54 Billion From FY1985 Defense Budget As Part Of “Long-Range Proposal To Cut $200 Billion From The Defense Budget Over Four Years,” And Called For Cancellation Of At Least 27 Weapons Systems And Reductions In 18 Other Systems. “[Kerry] recommended cancellation of 27 weapons systems including the B1 bomber, the cruise missile, MX missile, Trident submarine, Patriot air defense missile, F15 fighter plane, Sparrow missile, stealth bomber and Pershing II missile. He recommended reductions in 18 other systems including the joint tactical air system, the Bradley fighting vehicle, the M1 Abrams tank and the F16 fighter plane.” (Chris Black, “Kerry Asks Cuts In Defense Outlay,” The Boston Globe, 5/30/84)

Kerry Has Voted To Cut, Transfer Or Otherwise Decrease Overall Defense Budget At Least Thirty-Eight Times.

As far as being a Bush supporter – I voted to make him Governor twice, the current President and am looking forward to voting for him again in November.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2004, 10:14 PM
FederalistUSA FederalistUSA is offline
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Default We have 10 times the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard-Driver";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FederalistUSA";p=&quot View Post
Kerry is basing his presidental run on leaving the world stage, America stops being a superpower. We become isonaliansts ( like pre WW 1), Kerry decides to let the world do whatever it wants, regardless of the future concaquences. 3 1/2 years into his Presidencey the "New" terriost network is put together and attacks the US. This time we can only turn to the UN for protection (he cut the budget, there is no real US military), the UN waffles because the "New" network has bought them off just like Saddam bought the UN before. America is the battleground, not Iraq. China, France & Russia are glad to watch America slowy turn into a cesspool. This might be a Hawks future vision of weakness, but what happens if the US starts ignoring the world. Pick your own scenario, with what has happened in Kosovo, the Middle east, Old Soviet Union, New Europe. Do any of those past events lead you to believe America should shrink our armed forces or depend on someone else for protection?
Bush is the one ignoring the world and see what is happening. We now are being attacked by terrorists daily in Iraq. Terrorists now have people who hate the USA lining up at their door. Oh.. and we have decided that finding and capturing Osama bin Laden, remember the guy that led the group that attacked us, is not a priority, so we removed our intelligence guys and forces dedicated to finding him to more important Iraq.

As far as defense cuts, you do know that the USA spends more on defense than the next 10 largest defense bugets in the world....combined. Somehow, I think shaving a few wasted dollars is not going to hurt our capabilty. And if you are quoting Bush ads, then you have been lied to. But since you are a Bush supporter, I guess you like being lied to.
Of course, we defend democracy worldwide. What other country keeps large numbers of their military in almost every time zone? Most other countries you mention are the size of our individual states. France is equivalent to Texas, Iraq to California.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2004, 10:41 PM
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Default Wha?

Federalist - - really now - I'm sure John Kerry knows about the oil-for-food program problems. You aren't unique.
BTW - - remember back when we were getting ready to invade/destroy Iraq and all your type kept saying we would find all kinds of German, French and whatever WMD? The fools who believed what bush said claimed that's why France, Germany, Russia, etc wouldn't go into Iraq with us.
I explained at the time that we were just as likely, if not more likely, to find USA-made weapons there.

I was right.



Guess what? American companies were involved in the oil-for-food kickback program. It was how business was being done there - - companies either did business Saddam's way or they didn't do business at all. When Cheney was CEO of Halibacon he set up a fake company to do business with IRAN - totally illegal. Wanna bet they had their hands in Iraq too?


I don't know what it is that blinds people to the activities of their own country, but it's a false kind of nationalism.



And honey - - really - truly - you should give up that FLIPFLOP bull.
Your boy 'w' has done a awful lot of it and just like his pathetic military "service" record - - - you shouldn't go there. It will just open him up to exposing all of his flipflops.

Most recently - - didn't he say over and over he wouldn't negotiate with terrorists? And hasn't he called Saddam's Republic Guard terrorists?
THEN WHY IS HE NEGOTIATING WITH A R.G. GENERAL?

To save his bum in Fallujah - that's why!

Sure won't be the first time a Repignican president made a tyrant an alliy in Iraq........................Saddam ring a bell?
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