Global Warming - Page 63

NoSocialism.com · #**621** (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MannieD

Well maybe you're too young to remember, but I remember all the hoopla surrounding this, I remember reading the Tiime Magazine article that said that my town would be underwater by the year 2005, I remember everyone screaming that we had to ACT NOW before it was too late.

No the truth is, that Global Warming stopped 10 years ago. As a matter of fact, in the past year alone the Earth's mean average temperature dropped by .075 degrees, the biggest one year drop in over 100 years. We know for a fact that every 10,000 years or so there's an Ice Age that leaves the vast majority of North American under 50 feet of snow or more, and guess what, it's been almost 11,000 years since our last Ice Age. It's Ironic that they're trying to come up with ways to cool the planet. What happens if we start heading down another Ice Age? What will you do then? Ironic isn't it, that the very thing you're trying to do WILL happen naturally within less than 1000 years. How do we know this? Because it always has, and there's NOTHING we can do to change that.

Keep in mind that over the past 30 years, the Southern Hemisphere has cooled by the same degree as the Northern Hemisphere has heated up. Keep in mind that last year Chile's Agricultural area got it's first snow in over 80 years. Keep in mind that South Africa got it's first snow in over 120 years. You guys just don't get it. The climate changes all the time, and we couldn't change it if we could. Hell, that Volcano in Chile, a single Eruption puts out more Carbon Dioxide and Sulfur into the Atmosphere than we put out in a decade. There are many, many, many volcanic eruptions and again, we can't do anything about that.

Professor Peabody · #**622** (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MannieD

Professor Peabody
I'm having trouble following your logic.

From these 2 posts, I think you are saying that the global temperature is getting warmer.
But when scientists conclude from data from the monitoring station that the earth's temperature is getting warmer, you dismiss their evidence that the earth is getting warmer. If you dismiss the data of the monitoring stations, from what information do you conclude that the earth's temperature is rising and why would you dismiss evidence that agrees with your opinion?

You can twist up the words and take them into your own context all you want. Semantics...semantics! I was simply pointing out how shallow that one needs to dig to find unreliable data. how nice of you to boil my points down to black and white for me. I don't doubt the earth may be warming, I DO doubt you can prove it's man made.

The fact is there is absolutely no hard evidence that the global is warming period we are experiencing is man made in any way. To commit billions of dollars and ruin our economy simply isn't worth it on a hunch. Bring back irrefutable proof, that any warming IS positively man made any not just another of the zillions of warming and cooling cycles that have taken place since the beginning of time and I'll listen.

C-D-P · #**623** (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MannieD

This is a strawman argument.

Is everything that you do not agree with a strawman argument? Ya know what, don't answer that.

Quote:

A few questions come to mind
How long is "long enough"? Shouldn't it be about the data and evidence and not length of time?
If the data and models are fouled up, why do so many scientists, (including Dr.Landsea, so often used to try to discredit AGW) trust them? Why are bloggers who question the accuracy of the data more credible than the scientists doing the research? How much money will it cost if the scientists are right and the bloggers wrong? How can you have solutions if you don't know what the problem is? What "wasted money"?

I was pretty clear in what I meant by wasted money, I specifically said it in the post you quoted.

As you did not engage me in solutions yet attempt to force the debate (BTW, I do not care if GW is or is not occurring. Knowing if it is does or doesn't will not change the fact that pollution is bad for people, and oil is expensive), I will have to assume that you do not want to talk solutions.

Thank you for being civil, but good day.

submarinepainter · #**624** (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 03:13 PM

I am not a global warming expert but I do know not all scientists believe it
List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rming#See_also

White Fox · #**625** (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 03:45 PM

Founder of Greenpeace admits that there is no proof that humans are causing global warming.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/360625.html

MannieD · #**626** (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSocialism.com

Well maybe you're too young to remember, but I remember all the hoopla surrounding this, I remember reading the Tiime Magazine article that said that my town would be underwater by the year 2005, I remember everyone screaming that we had to ACT NOW before it was too late.

No the truth is, that Global Warming stopped 10 years ago. As a matter of fact, in the past year alone the Earth's mean average temperature dropped by .075 degrees, the biggest one year drop in over 100 years. We know for a fact that every 10,000 years or so there's an Ice Age that leaves the vast majority of North American under 50 feet of snow or more, and guess what, it's been almost 11,000 years since our last Ice Age. It's Ironic that they're trying to come up with ways to cool the planet. What happens if we start heading down another Ice Age? What will you do then? Ironic isn't it, that the very thing you're trying to do WILL happen naturally within less than 1000 years. How do we know this? Because it always has, and there's NOTHING we can do to change that.

Keep in mind that over the past 30 years, the Southern Hemisphere has cooled by the same degree as the Northern Hemisphere has heated up. Keep in mind that last year Chile's Agricultural area got it's first snow in over 80 years. Keep in mind that South Africa got it's first snow in over 120 years. You guys just don't get it. The climate changes all the time, and we couldn't change it if we could. Hell, that Volcano in Chile, a single Eruption puts out more Carbon Dioxide and Sulfur into the Atmosphere than we put out in a decade. There are many, many, many volcanic eruptions and again, we can't do anything about that.

Maybe when you get as old as I am you'll learn to check your facts before spreading the misinformation found on right wing blogs.
warmest years

Code:

warmest years
year deviation from mean in °C °C Anomaly from mean(1901-2000)   
2005 0.6058 0.6046   
1998 0.5782 0.5764   
2002 0.5582 0.5573   
2003 0.5581 0.5565   
2007 0.5484   
2006 0.5392 0.5394   
2004 0.5344 0.5254   
2001 0.4939 0.4839   
1997 0.4606 0.4615   
1995 0.3889 0.3981   
1999 0.3943 0.3947   
1990 0.3641 0.3700   
2000 0.3629 0.3630   
1991 0.3206 0.3241   
1988 0.3047 0.2888   
1987 0.2576 0.2870   
1994 0.2758 0.2815   
1983           0.2716   
1996 0.2564 0.2586   
1981           0.2293

and volcanoes

Quote:

Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea(Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)

I won't bother with any of your other "facts", but they're probably not accurate either.

MannieD · #**627** (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Peabody

You can twist up the words and take them into your own context all you want. Semantics...semantics! I was simply pointing out how shallow that one needs to dig to find unreliable data. how nice of you to boil my points down to black and white for me. I don't doubt the earth may be warming, I DO doubt you can prove it's man made.

The fact is there is absolutely no hard evidence that the global is warming period we are experiencing is man made in any way. To commit billions of dollars and ruin our economy simply isn't worth it on a hunch. Bring back irrefutable proof, that any warming IS positively man made any not just another of the zillions of warming and cooling cycles that have taken place since the beginning of time and I'll listen.

Just answer me 2 questions: How have I "twisted" your words? and How did you come to the opinion that the global temperature is increasing?

White Fox · #**628** (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 05:00 PM

The wonderful irony is that if global warming continues, it'll cause another ice age. It appears as thought the wait has been worth it. All of you warm climate people will see exactly what its like to live in an arctic region. Of course, I wonder what that means for my own state. Buried under one massive ice field?, like Greenland?

Rino · #**629** (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MannieD

Maybe when you get as old as I am you'll learn to check your facts before spreading the misinformation found on right wing blogs.
warmest years

Code:

warmest years
year deviation from mean in °C °C Anomaly from mean(1901-2000)   
2005 0.6058 0.6046   
1998 0.5782 0.5764   
2002 0.5582 0.5573   
2003 0.5581 0.5565   
2007 0.5484   
2006 0.5392 0.5394   
2004 0.5344 0.5254   
2001 0.4939 0.4839   
1997 0.4606 0.4615   
1995 0.3889 0.3981   
1999 0.3943 0.3947   
1990 0.3641 0.3700   
2000 0.3629 0.3630   
1991 0.3206 0.3241   
1988 0.3047 0.2888   
1987 0.2576 0.2870   
1994 0.2758 0.2815   
1983           0.2716   
1996 0.2564 0.2586   
1981           0.2293

and volcanoes
I won't bother with any of your other "facts", but they're probably not accurate either.

Thank you for posting the link to Wikipedia. From that article it hyperlinked to this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record

Here you can see the last 5,000,000 years.

It seems to be following an almost predictable pattern.

MannieD · #**630** (**permalink**) 05-06-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-D-P

Is everything that you do not agree with a strawman argument? Ya know what, don't answer that.

No

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-D-P

I was pretty clear in what I meant by wasted money, I specifically said it in the post you quoted.

As you did not engage me in solutions yet attempt to force the debate (BTW, I do not care if GW is or is not occurring. Knowing if it is does or doesn't will not change the fact that pollution is bad for people, and oil is expensive), I will have to assume that you do not want to talk solutions.

Thank you for being civil, but good day.

I thought we might have decent discussion, but I see that's not going to happen.
You wrote

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-D-P

Mannie.

It is not that the temp is or is not rising. It is how the whole thing is done.

We have not been studying the global climate long enough to say anything.

The models and data are fouled, the percentages of what we actually produce do not meet with the claims. The GW guys do not seem to be looking at alternative causes. There is just too much junk science.

and now you say you I was trying to force the debate?. How can I ignore misinformation like "There is just too much junk science."? Wouldn't consider that statement as forcing the debate?
How can you discuss solutions if you don't know the cause? The solutions to AGW are different than those of non-AGW. So tell me, what are your solutions?
As to the "wasted money" question, I was wondering why you considered it wasted. I don't consider any money spent that gives us info about our environment wasted and was trying to understand why you do.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode