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  #691 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Professor Peabody View Post
I just couldn't resist! Here are just a few:

Signers of the Oregon Petition with Peer-Review Papers Skeptical of "Man-Made" Global Warming.



Arthur B Robinson, PhD,

Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide(Energy & Environment, Volume 10, Number 5, pp. 439-468, 1 September 1999)- Arthur B. Robinson, Noah E. Robinson, Willie Soon


Sallie L. Baliunas

Global warming(Progress in Physical Geography, 27, 448-455, 2003)- W. Soon, S. L. Baliunas


S Fred Singer, PhD,

Human Contribution to Climate Change Remains Questionable(American Geophysical Society, Vol 80, page 183-187, April 20, 1999)- S. Fred Singer


Sherwood B. Idso

Modeling climatic effects of anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions: unknowns and uncertainties. Reply to Risbey (2002)(Climate Research, Vol. 22: 187–188, 2002)- Willie Soon, Sallie Baliunas, Sherwood B. Idso, Kirill Ya. Kondratyev, Eric S. Posmentier

CO2-induced global warming: a skeptic’s view of potential climate change(Climate Research, Vol. 10: 69–82, 199- Sherwood B. Idso


George V. Chilingar

On global forces of nature driving the Earth's climate. Are humans involved?(Environmental Geology, Volume 50, Number 6, August, 2006)- L. F. Khilyuk and G. V. Chilingar


S Fred Singer, PhD

A comparison of tropical temperature trends with model predictions(International Journal of Climatology, 5 Dec 2007)- David H. Douglass, John R. Christy, Benjamin D. Pearson, S. Fred Singer

Altitude dependence of atmospheric temperature trends: Climate models versus observation(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 31, L13208, 2004)- David H. Douglass, Benjamin D. Pearson, S. Fred Singer


Richard S. Lindzen

Can increasing carbon dioxide cause climate change?(Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 94, pp. 8335-8342, August 1997)- Richard S. Lindzen


Sorry, your outta gas on this one. I could keep going.....but why?
From your list that haven't signed:
David H. Douglass
Benjamin D. Pearson
L. F. Khilyuk
John R. Christy
Kirill Ya. Kondratyev,
Eric S. Posmentier .
What they don't keep in contact with their professional associates?
IPCC contributors that haven't signed:

Andrew Staniforth
Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction
and Research, Met Offi ce
UK

Ronald J. Stouffer
National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration, Geophysical
Fluid Dynamics Laboratory
USA

Mark Tadross
Climate Systems Analysis Group,
University of Cape Town
South Africa

Chris Thorncroft
Department of Earth and Atmospheric
Science, University at Albany, SUNY
USA, UK
Surely if there are so many IPCC contributors that disagree with their conclusions, some would have taken the time to sign the petition. Even Landsea and Pielke have not signed it. Nor have McKitrick and McIntyre.

And FYI, Lindzen has never criticized the science in IPCC's Working Group I: The Science of Climate Change. What he is critical of is the "Summary for Policy Makers."
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  #692 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MannieD View Post
Answering me with a question is no answer. I'll ask it again:
Do we know how many of the 19,000 are qualified to review the research?
On my previous postings I already gave you a list of only a portion of signers of the petition that had peer review publications, I am sorry you can't accept that, but you may feel free to go through all 19,000 if you like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MannieD View Post
My Bold. That statement is incorrect. So the conclusion wrong is because it is based on incorrect facts.
Below are the references used to make the statement that you claim is incorrect, which one or ones are you claiming are incorrect and please show the basis for your claim?


4) References to 95% contribution of water vapor:

a. S.M. Freidenreich and V. Ramaswamy, “Solar Radiation Absorption by Carbon Dioxide, Overlap with Water, and a Parameterization for General Circulation Models,” Journal of Geophysical Research 98 (1993):7255-7264

b. Global Deception: The Exaggeration of the Global Warming Threat
by Dr. Patrick J. Michaels, June 1998
Virginia State Climatologist and Professor of Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia

c. Greenhouse Gas Emissions, Appendix D, Greenhouse Gas Spectral Overlaps and Their Significance
Energy Information Administration; Official Energy Statistics from the U.S. Government

d. Personal Communication-- Dr. Richard S. Lindzen
Alfred P. Slone Professor of Meteorology, MIT

e. The Geologic Record and Climate Change
by Dr. Tim Patterson, January 2005
Professor of Geology-- Carleton University
Ottawa, Canada
Listed as Peer Reviewed @ http://petesplace-peter.blogspot.com...te-change.html

f. EPA Seeks To Have Water Vapor Classified As A Pollutant
by the ecoEnquirer, 2006

g. Air and Water Issues
by Freedom 21.org, 2005
Citation: Bjorn Lomborg, p. 259. Also: Patrick Michaels and Robert Balling, Jr. The Satanic Gases, Clearing the Air About Global Warming (Washington, DC: CATO Institute, 2000), p. 25.

h. Does CO2 Really Drive Global Warming?
by Dr. Robert Essenhigh, May 2001

i. Solar Cycles, Not CO2, Determine Climate
by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc., 21st Century Science and Technology, Winter 2003-2004, pp. 52-65

Here is what a peer reviewer has to say about the process:

Quote:
It does not work as outsiders seem to think.

Peer review, on which lay people place great weight, varies from being an important control, where the editors and the referees are competent and responsible, to being a complete farce, where they are not. As a rule, not surprisingly, the process operates somewhere in the middle, being more than a joke but less than the nearly flawless system of Olympian scrutiny that outsiders imagine it to be. Any journal editor who desires, for whatever reason, to reject a submission can easily do so by choosing referees he knows full well will knock it down; likewise, he can easily obtain favorable referee reports. As I have always counseled young people whose work was rejected, seemingly on improper or insufficient grounds, the system is a crap shoot. Personal vendettas, ideological conflicts, professional jealousies, methodological disagreements, sheer self-promotion, and a great deal of plain incompetence and irresponsibility are no strangers to the scientific world; indeed, that world is rife with these all-too-human attributes. In no event can peer review ensure that research is correct in its procedures or its conclusions. The history of every science is a chronicle of one mistake after another. In some sciences these mistakes are largely weeded out in the course of time; in others they persist for extended periods; and in some sciences, such as economics, actual scientific retrogression may continue for generations under the misguided (but self-serving) belief that it is really progress.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1963
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Last edited by Professor Peabody; 05-10-2008 at 07:31 AM. Reason: changed: a peer reviewed to a peer reviewer
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  #693 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 08:14 AM
NoSocialism.com NoSocialism.com is offline
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Originally Posted by Professor Peabody View Post
...
4) References to 95% contribution of water vapor:

a. S.M. Freidenreich and V. Ramaswamy, “Solar Radiation Absorption by Carbon Dioxide, Overlap with Water, and a Parameterization for General Circulation Models,” Journal of Geophysical Research 98 (1993):7255-7264

b. Global Deception: The Exaggeration of the Global Warming Threat
by Dr. Patrick J. Michaels, June 1998
Virginia State Climatologist and Professor of Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia

c. Greenhouse Gas Emissions, Appendix D, Greenhouse Gas Spectral Overlaps and Their Significance
Energy Information Administration; Official Energy Statistics from the U.S. Government

d. Personal Communication-- Dr. Richard S. Lindzen
Alfred P. Slone Professor of Meteorology, MIT

e. The Geologic Record and Climate Change
by Dr. Tim Patterson, January 2005
Professor of Geology-- Carleton University
Ottawa, Canada
Listed as Peer Reviewed @ http://petesplace-peter.blogspot.com...te-change.html

f. EPA Seeks To Have Water Vapor Classified As A Pollutant
by the ecoEnquirer, 2006

g. Air and Water Issues
by Freedom 21.org, 2005
Citation: Bjorn Lomborg, p. 259. Also: Patrick Michaels and Robert Balling, Jr. The Satanic Gases, Clearing the Air About Global Warming (Washington, DC: CATO Institute, 2000), p. 25.

h. Does CO2 Really Drive Global Warming?
by Dr. Robert Essenhigh, May 2001

i. Solar Cycles, Not CO2, Determine Climate
by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc., 21st Century Science and Technology, Winter 2003-2004, pp. 52-65

Here is what a peer reviewer has to say about the process:
This is very true, if you see most of the charts on Greenhouse Gases, you will notice in very small print at the bottom, "Excluding Water Vapor"

Here's another one...

And another...

And another...

And another problem is that EVERY ONE of the charts that show CO2 on the rise, relies on Mauna Loa Hawaii. Here's the thing, there's something over there called a VOLCANO. You know, those things that spew ash, molten lava and tons and tons of CO2! Now if you take a look at the chart, you'll notice that in 1998, we had the greatest growth in concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere, ever. The following year, we had the lowest growth on record since 1992. In 2007, it was back down to supposedly growing at 2.14%. This doesn't fit with the fact that CO2 output has been going up exponentially EVERY year since 1998, due to the tremendous surge in output by the Chinese and Indians. Since that time, the U.S. hasn't reduced our Carbon Output AT ALL, instead we've increased our Carbon Output, AND the Chinese have actually overtaken us in Carbon Output by a fairly wide margin.
How is it possible, that the chart shows reducing growth in CO2 output since 1998, when the world has SO DRAMATICALLY increased it's total CO2 output? The reason is simple, Man made CO2 emissions only amount to 3.207% of all CO2! Just as the Ice Cores have shown us for the past Million years, when Temperatures rise, you have a rise in Carbon Output. Period. Nothing we do can change or affect that, we have too small of an impact on the planet to make much of a difference. This is why we don't see a massive spike in CO2 output on the data, because the only thing that is measuring is the fluctuations in the CO2 output of that very active volcano over there.
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  #694 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 08:17 AM
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You can only count the people who put there names onto these things. Not the amount of people in an organisation or the amount of scientists in the world! thats retarted..
No, what's retarded is that anyone can expect to draw any conclusions from a petition that's confusing. What's retarded is that anyone can draw a conclusion without knowing the total numbers of petitions sent out. What's retarded is that you complain about the lack of qualifications on the IPCC contributions list but don't question the names on a list that you agree with. I could go on but the bottom line is that petition is pure propaganda.
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:21 AM
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No, what's retarded is that anyone can expect to draw any conclusions from a petition that's confusing. What's retarded is that anyone can draw a conclusion without knowing the total numbers of petitions sent out. What's retarded is that you complain about the lack of qualifications on the IPCC contributions list but don't question the names on a list that you agree with. I could go on but the bottom line is that petition is pure propaganda.
Again, here's a video with the LEAD AUTHOR of the IPCC report, basically refuting Anthropogenic Global Warming.
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  #696 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Professor Peabody View Post
Quote:
New Peer-Reviewed Scientific Studies Chill Global Warming Fears

Posted By Marc Morano – Marc_Morano@EPW.Senate.Gov – 4:44 PM ET

Washington DC – An abundance of new peer-reviewed studies, analyses, and data error discoveries in the last several months has prompted scientists to declare that fear of catastrophic man-made global warming “bites the dust” and the scientific underpinnings for alarm may be “falling apart.” The latest study to cast doubt on climate fears finds that even a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide would not have the previously predicted dire impacts on global temperatures. This new study is not unique, as a host of recent peer-reviewed studies have cast a chill on global warming fears.

“Anthropogenic (man-made) global warming bites the dust,” declared astronomer Dr. Ian Wilson after reviewing the new study which has been accepted for publication in the Journal of Geophysical Research. Another scientist said the peer-reviewed study overturned “in one fell swoop” the climate fears promoted by the UN and former Vice President Al Gore. The study entitled “Heat Capacity, Time Constant, and Sensitivity of Earth’s Climate System,” was authored by Brookhaven National Lab scientist Stephen Schwartz.

http://www.ecd.bnl.gov/steve/pubs/HeatCapacity.pdf

“Effectively, this (new study) means that the global economy will spend trillions of dollars trying to avoid a warming of ~ 1.0 K by 2100 A.D.” Dr. Wilson wrote in a note to the Senate Environment & Public Works Committee on August 19, 2007. Wilson, a former operations astronomer at the Hubble Space Telescope Institute in Baltimore MD, was referring to the trillions of dollars that would be spent under such international global warming treaties like the Kyoto Protocol..
You do realize how Schwartz came to those conclusions. right. Let me give you a hint: It's a method you've been ranting about its inaccuracies.
Priceless
And there's already a rebuttal with 4 authors:
Quote:
6. Conclusions
S07 has proposed an analysis method based on approximating the climate system as a linear trend plus an autoregressive process of order 1, forced by random noise. There are strong physical arguments why this approach is likely to be an oversimplification, and as we have shown, the data contradict this hypothesis. The S07 analysis method generates strongly biased results when applied to a climate model of known sensitivity, and even when applied to the simple energy balance model S07 invokes to justify the approach. In fact the S07 method for estimating the time scale of an AR(1) process is strongly biased for realistic parameter values, and we have provided a simple demonstration and explanation of this effect. We suggest that such credibility checks, which are not difficult
We'll see how you're linked study holds up to further invesigation.
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:35 AM
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No, what's retarded is that anyone can expect to draw any conclusions from a petition that's confusing.
Whats confusing about it? 19,000 scientists say don't sign the kyoto accord your making a mistake.

Quote:
What's retarded is that anyone can draw a conclusion without knowing the total numbers of petitions sent out.
This petition was online in the age of information we live in ANYONE with a computer could have accessed it you can't draw conclusions of people who don't say anything there could be hundreds of reasons they don't besides that they don't agree with it.

Quote:
What's retarded is that you complain about the lack of qualifications on the IPCC contributions list but don't question the names on a list that you agree with.
Whats to question? The Oregon petition is AGAINST the idea of AGW and theres 19,000 of them it's the largest of it's kind and i'm not going to ignore it. I will laugh at the 2,100 that every global warming enthusiast loves to bring up so frequently! Since its not even a number agreeing with it its just a list of 'any experts in relevant fields' alot of which disagree but were ignored.

Quote:
I could go on but the bottom line is that petition is pure propaganda.
Oww the oregon petition is propaganda!?! typical!!
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  #698 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 10:35 AM
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You do realize how Schwartz came to those conclusions. right. Let me give you a hint: It's a method you've been ranting about its inaccuracies.
Priceless
Thank you for proving my point about the inconclusiveness of the so called evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MannieD View Post
And there's already a rebuttal with 4 authors:We'll see how you're linked study holds up to further invesigation.
Who are they and where can I find their peer reviewed publications?
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Old 05-10-2008, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
Global warming is a hoax.
Even if it wasn't, I wouldn't try to fight it. I like hot.
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  #700 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2008, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by NoSocialism.com View Post
Again, here's a video with the LEAD AUTHOR of the IPCC report, basically refuting Anthropogenic Global Warming.
Thanks for the video link, I watched the whole thing. Notice how many IPCC scientists tell it like it is!
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