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Old 05-13-2008, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by PatriotNews View Post
Still using the liberal group SourceWatch to debunk your detractors? Shame on you. I've already discredited them.

If it is so important to you that these opinions on AGW come exclusively from "scientifically peer reviewed" whatever you call it magazines/journals, why do you not provide us with a list of acceptable magazines/journals first, so that we can meet you standards of what is valid science?
Why are you questioning bugalug's use of sourcewatch but not questioning the use of such obviously biased and misinformed sites such as heartland and petesplace?
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  #722 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Professor Peabody View Post
All this shows is that we can cite many different scientists on both sides of the argument. It does prove there is NO real consensus and any legislative action on global warming should be delayed until all the facts are know.
"many on both sides"? I don't think so. When there are a large number of peer-reviewed papers showing evidence of AGW and a few against AGW, then, yes, there is a consensus that humans are partly responsible for the increased global temperatures. For every paper against AGW I could find at least 5 papers for AGW.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:31 AM
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I think we've already corrected the "95%" misinformation, so I'll pass on commenting on your links.

Do you really think that the climatologists would overlook this? If you'll scroll down from your link you'll see that "EVERYONE ONE of the charts that show CO2 on the rise" is incorrect.
Where do you get your "fact" that CO2 output has been going up exponentially? Where do you get your information that "when temperatures rise, you have a rise in Carbon Output"? What is the source of this carbon ?
Show me a single one of the Carbon Charts, that DON'T show Hawaii as the source for their Carbon measurements. I've not been able to find a single one.

As for my fact that CO2 has been going up exponentially, have you been asleep? Ever heard of a little country called China, you know, the most populated country in the world, and this other little place called India, the second most populated country in the world? Never heard of them? OK, simple math genius, do I REALLY need to provide links for this? If the U.S., up until just a few years ago the biggest CO2 output nation in the world, has NOT reduced it's CO2 output, (we've only slowed down the growth). But China, has now SURPASSED US, then what does that tell you? I mean you have no ability to do deductive reasoning? Europe you say? Here's a dirty little secret, even though they signed Kyoto, they haven't decreased their CO2 output either.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MannieD View Post
"many on both sides"? I don't think so. When there are a large number of peer-reviewed papers showing evidence of AGW and a few against AGW, then, yes, there is a consensus that humans are partly responsible for the increased global temperatures. For every paper against AGW I could find at least 5 papers for AGW.
There was once a consensus that the Earth was flat. Turns out they were wrong, what do ya know.

There was once a consensus that the "Common Cold" was caused by Cold air. What do ya know, they were wrong too.

There was once a consensus that blacks were somehow sub-human, what do ya know, they were wrong too.

There was once a consensus that women were too emotional and shouldn't be allowed to vote.... Guess what.....

Just because, "everyone says so" doesn't make it right. Hell if THAT were the case, we would have NEVER advanced.

Truth has 3 stages,
  1. First it is dismissed as irrelevant.
  2. Second it is violently opposed
  3. Third, it is shown to be self evident
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:54 AM
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[quote=Professor Peabody;520334]

OK, let's see, there are dozens and dozens and dozens of scientists who say that they don't like what the IPCC is saying about what they wrote on the GW Debate.
That you don't have a problem with.
Out of the several dozens that were featured in the movie, 2 says they don't like how their comments were used.
Ah, the whole thing is trash, everyone is lying.

Yes I see your logic, you filter out anything you don't want to hear. ... What was that, "lalalalalalalalalala" Yeah right, take your hands off your ears, and listen.
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Last edited by NoSocialism.com; 05-13-2008 at 04:55 AM.
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  #726 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Professor Peabody View Post
My bad 0.0360% = 0.00036 my source spelled out percent instead of %. But thank you very much for increasing the affect of my argument!

The average Olympic size swimming pool holds approximately 235,125 gallons of water If the Earth's atmosphere were the water in that pool CO2 would make up 84.64 gallons of the 235,125 gallons in the pool or the contents of a large fish tank. But, this is for total CO2 levels, man made CO2 accounts for approximately 3.225% of the 84.64 gallons or 2.72 gallons. This would roughly be a little less than 3 milk jugs of water out of an Olympic size swimming pool.

Who in their right mind would believe such a minuscule amount can make the difference you propose?
The reason your argument is nonsense is that most of the atmosphere does not interact with infrared radiation so it has no effect on heating the atmosphere. from wiki
Quote:
The molecules/atoms that constitute the bulk of the atmosphere: oxygen (O2), nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar); do not interact with infrared radiation significantly. While the oxygen and nitrogen molecules can vibrate, because of their symmetry these vibrations do not create any transient charge separation. Without such a transient dipole moment, they can neither absorb nor emit infrared radiation.
So about 98% of the earth's atmosphere is not involved in global warming
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Old 05-13-2008, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
That is not an argument - it is ignorant blathering.

The concentration of CFCs in the atmosphere is far, far less than that of CO2. Do you suggest we ignore the Montreal Protocol and start producing those again?


...and please use SI units. WTF is a gallon? Ok - your reasoning is nonsense, and your grasp of mathematics is clearly non-existant - but at least try to sound like a scientist wont you?
Actually a few years after this was passed, Mt. Pinatubo in the Philippines blew up and spewed Billions on tons of CFC's into the Atmosphere, within a year, there was a huge hole in the Ozone layer above the Volcano, then the following year, it closed itself off and within 5 years, the hole in the Arctic was smaller than it had ever been observed (which is why you don't see it in the news anymore). Turns out that Solar radiation is what makes Ozone. Kind of like saying we're going to run out of water if it keeps raining. No, the water will evaporate, make new clouds and it will rain again! Guess what, same with the Ozone layer.

Another one of your theories bites the dust. What's funny though, is that the new stuff, that they replaced the CFC's with, contribute more to "Global Warming" than the old CFC's ever did. Hehehe, oh well, that's what happens when you call for change on something you don't understand.

Where will you be when the Glaciers start marching South Again? We know it's happened in the past, and so it WILL happen again. Won't you feel silly when it does.
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  #728 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by NoSocialism.com View Post
Actually a few years after this was passed, Mt. Pinatubo in the Philippines blew up and spewed Billions on tons of CFC's into the Atmosphere,
This made me laugh. Where did you get this BS? Any one want to explain to him what's wrong with this statement? (Hint: It's not a grammatical error.)
With such a basic mistake, I can't take the rest of the post seriously.
To anyone who still takes NS's posts seriously, I have 2 bridges to sell you. George Washington slept on one of them.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MannieD View Post
The reason your argument is nonsense is that most of the atmosphere does not interact with infrared radiation so it has no effect on heating the atmosphere. from wikiSo about 98% of the earth's atmosphere is not involved in global warming
That's a bad link there, it says no such thing.

Water Vapor.....look it up.

The earth has warmed and cooled numerous times in the past and many of those temperature swings have been much greater than anything we've experienced so far. So, since we human beings don't really understand why those temperature swings occurred, how can we be sure that the very mild warming we've seen so far hasn't been caused by normal changes in our climate?
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor Peabody View Post
That's a bad link there, it says no such thing.

Water Vapor.....look it up.

The earth has warmed and cooled numerous times in the past and many of those temperature swings have been much greater than anything we've experienced so far. So, since we human beings don't really understand why those temperature swings occurred, how can we be sure that the very mild warming we've seen so far hasn't been caused by normal changes in our climate?
Thanks,
link has been fixed
Quote:
The molecules/atoms that constitute the bulk of the atmosphere: oxygen (O2), nitrogen (N2) and argon (Ar); do not interact with infrared radiation significantly. While the oxygen and nitrogen molecules can vibrate, because of their symmetry these vibrations do not create any transient charge separation. Without such a transient dipole moment, they can neither absorb nor emit infrared radiation.
Then can you explain it to me?
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Last edited by MannieD; 05-13-2008 at 12:08 PM.
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