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Thread: Gone With The Wind

  1. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxcutter View Post
    The government subsidy for windmills expires this year. Already tens of thousands of windmills (mostly made in China) are being abandoned. I have posted threads on that subject.

    Wind as an energy resource looks to be free, but is highly site-dependent, is very intermittent and requires a lot of storage to make it dispatchable upon demand, and has proven to be so maintenance-intensive as to be unprofitable.

    Wind energy in the twenty-first century sounds a lot like steam locomotives in the late 1940s. Steam locomotives used a cheap form of energy, but their inefficiency and horrendous maintenance costs drove them off the rails in favor of the diesel-electric locomotive. Nobody in the 1940s gave a rip about air pollution.

    With the expiration of the generous subsidy, wind power will have to live on its own merits. That has generated a panic in the wind energy industry.

    http://www.masterresource.org/2012/0...anic-awea-ptc/

    I suspect there will be a lot of wind turbines available for scrap prices. If the ethanol (the stuff is actually denatured alcohol) subsidy is unacceptable, why should this one be any different?
    A portfolio exceeding 24,500 MW in Europe, the Americas and Asia

    Wind farm development and sales are key to Gamesa's future growth, affording the company competitive advantages and complementing its wind turbine business.
    Gamesa is a global leader in the wind farm development, construction and sales market, with nearly 4,300 MW installed to date and a project portfolio of more than 24,500 MW at varying stages of development in Europe, the Americas and Asia.
    Gamesa is also one of the leading technology firms in the global wind industry, with more than 15 years' experience and 23,000 MW of its turbines installed in more than 30 countries. Its full-service approach to this market encompasses wind turbine design, construction and installation, along with management of operation and maintenance (O&M) services at wind farms totalling 15,000 MW.
    Gamesa has more than 30 manufacturing plants in Europe, the United States, China, India and Brazil and an international workforce of 8,000 people.
    source

    Oh yeah, Gamesa looks like it is having financial problems.


    When are you going to get it through your thick skulls that the US is not the center of the alternative energy universe?
    1. The Scientific debate remains open. Voters believe that there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community. Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly. Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate, and defer to scientists and other experts in the field.--Luntz Research

  2. #12

    Default

    Let's just see how they do.

    If you subsidize something enough it might stay afloat - at the expense of everybody.

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxcutter View Post
    Let's just see how they do.

    If you subsidize something enough it might stay afloat - at the expense of everybody.
    You mean "something" like coal and oil?
    1. The Scientific debate remains open. Voters believe that there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community. Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly. Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate, and defer to scientists and other experts in the field.--Luntz Research

  4. Cool

    Global warming making storms more intense...

    'Storm of Century' Might Hit Every Decade
    February 17, 2012 - Intense storm risk more frequent in warmer world
    With climate change, powerful storms could make landfall far more frequently, causing powerful, devastating storm surges every three to 20 years, researchers from MIT and Princeton University have found. Their study proposes a way to more accurately assess the risks posed by more frequent and intense hurricanes and sea rise, especially in coastal communities most threatened by the earth’s changing climate. New York City was the focus of the study. Scientists coupled computer climate models with hurricane models and generated some 45,000 virtual storms within a 200-kilometer radius of New York.

    Princeton University atmospheric scientist and study co-author Michael Oppenheimer says, while there was some variability among the models, the common feature was a greater frequency of intense storms. That confirmed findings from previous studies. “What we found was that indeed, a surge level, that is a level of penetration of flood water inland during a storm, that would previously have been reached perhaps every 100 years, is now going to be reached maybe once a decade, which is quite a big change in the risk and something that coastal managers really have to start planning for.”

    About half the world’s population lives within 200 kilometers of a coastline, and that number is rising as more people move to cities in low-lying areas, according to the Population Reference Bureau. Oppenheimer believes urban planners must be able to evaluate the risks climate change will pose to life and property. “What is the probability that something of a certain level of impact will happen?" he says. "And how do we prevent that? Do we raise the sea walls around the city? Do we have better evacuation plans? Do we ultimately plan for some sort of storm surge barrier?”

    According to Oppenheimer, as the world changes, so must our response to it. “We need to anticipate that world," he says. "We don’t want to just sit there and take the punch. We want to be ready for it when it comes.” While the study analysis is based on New York, Oppenheimer says the technique the team used could be applied anywhere. “We’re looking at this as one modest step in a direction that humanity is going to have to move over time, in getting smarter about dealing with the world that one way or another is going to get warmer, with more threats, while the world also hopefully gets its act together to cut emissions to start reducing the risk eventually.”

    Source
    So here is my suggestion: Forget bombs -- we should drop Obama administration policy makers on Iraq and Syria. That would ensure the ruin of the Islamic State in no time!

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by waltky View Post
    Global warming making storms more intense...

    'Storm of Century' Might Hit Every Decade
    February 17, 2012 - Intense storm risk more frequent in warmer world
    Has anyone compared the number of hurricanes (Atlantic and Pacific) of category 3, 4, and 5 for each year since 1900? If the above is true, that should show in the data.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not Amused View Post
    Has anyone compared the number of hurricanes (Atlantic and Pacific) of category 3, 4, and 5 for each year since 1900? If the above is true, that should show in the data.
    Instead of the Safir-Simpson scale, a better measure is Accumulated Cyclonic Energy (ACE), which accounts for the actual energy in the wind, the physical size of the storm, and its duration. Adding up the ACE for all storms in a year gives you a good idea of how bad the year was.

    Like all weather data, it's quite variable, but you can smooth out the variations by taking a long-term running mean.


    The Top 5 Tactics of climate denial:
    1. Cherry Picking 2. Fake Experts 3. Impossible Expectations 4. Misrepresenting the Science & Logical Fallacies 5. Conspiracy Theories
    Diethelm & Mckee 2009

    Honesty is not on the list.



  7. #17

    Default

    More phoney "science" cooked up by Warmers that nobody believes.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxcutter View Post
    More phoney "science" cooked up by Warmers that nobody believes.
    This was actually ¨cooked up¨ by Dr. Chris Landsea, one of the few skeptic climatologists.

    Of course I expect you to retract and apologize.

    The Top 5 Tactics of climate denial:
    1. Cherry Picking 2. Fake Experts 3. Impossible Expectations 4. Misrepresenting the Science & Logical Fallacies 5. Conspiracy Theories
    Diethelm & Mckee 2009

    Honesty is not on the list.



  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Poor Debater View Post
    Instead of the Safir-Simpson scale, a better measure is Accumulated Cyclonic Energy (ACE), which accounts for the actual energy in the wind, the physical size of the storm, and its duration. Adding up the ACE for all storms in a year gives you a good idea of how bad the year was.

    Like all weather data, it's quite variable, but you can smooth out the variations by taking a long-term running mean.

    I did this analysis 5 years ago or so, and found that total storms remained near the same, as an increase in the Atlantic, is matched by a reduction in the Pacific. That is why I asked the question the way I did.

    To be even more accurate, a study would include all cyclones, northern and southern hemisphere.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by waltky View Post
    Global warming making storms more intense...

    'Storm of Century' Might Hit Every Decade
    February 17, 2012 - Intense storm risk more frequent in warmer world
    Indeed!

    2010 - 2011: Earth's most extreme weather since 1816?
    [excerpt]
    Every year extraordinary weather events rock the Earth. Records that have stood centuries are broken. Great floods, droughts, and storms affect millions of people, and truly exceptional weather events unprecedented in human history may occur. But the wild roller-coaster ride of incredible weather events during 2010, in my mind, makes that year the planet's most extraordinary year for extreme weather since reliable global upper-air data began in the late 1940s. Never in my 30 years as a meteorologist have I witnessed a year like 2010--the astonishing number of weather disasters and unprecedented wild swings in Earth's atmospheric circulation were like nothing I've seen. The pace of incredible extreme weather events in the U.S. over the past few months have kept me so busy that I've been unable to write-up a retrospective look at the weather events of 2010. But I've finally managed to finish, so fasten your seat belts for a tour through the top twenty most remarkable weather events of 2010. At the end, I'll reflect on what the wild weather events of 2010 and 2011 imply for our future.

    "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;
    that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."

    -- John Kenneth Galbraith

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