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Thread: Why are Progressives ignoring overpopulation?

  1. Default Why are Progressives ignoring overpopulation?

    Overpopulation is the biggest threat to the environment (not to mention poverty and unemployment).

    So why is it that progressives are doing almost nothing about the high fertility rates in the world?
    They say having fewer children is important — but that is all — it is just words. Do you really think all those people in India or Africa are going to stop having so many children just because you are telling them? And where are all the campaigns and advertising telling them to not to have so many babies? Progressives are doing nearly nothing about this problem! It is almost as if they actually want more people, but then want everyone to be forced to accept lower standard of living, to "do their part" for the environment.

    Some readers here might make the argument that this is all in other countries, and there is nothing you can do. But these peoples children will come as immigrants into the developed countries, as all that overpopulation is creating poverty that is displacing people from the countries with high fertility rates into the countries with lower fertility rates. So if these people have a right to enter into our countries as immigrants, we should also have a right to intervene in the countries from which they are coming from, to promote lower fertility rates.

    Climate change and global pollution cannot be adequately tackled without addressing the neglected issue of the world's booming population, according to two leading scientists.

    Professor Chris Rapley, director of the British Antarctic Survey, and Professor John Guillebaud, vented their frustration yesterday at the fact that overpopulation had fallen off the agenda of the many organisations dedicated to saving the planet.

    The scientists said dealing with the burgeoning human population of the planet was vital if real progress was to be made on the other enormous problems facing the world.

    "It is the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about" Professor Guillebaud said. "Unless we reduce the human population humanely through family planning, nature will do it for us through violence, epidemics or starvation."

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  3. #2

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    Developed nations should mind their own business in this regard. If people in third world nations want to die of starvation and plague so that they can screw more, then let them. We should just make sure that their foolishness doesn't affect us, by limiting immigration. It's not like those countries are using up our resources. Not if we don't let them, anyway.
    Last edited by fifthofnovember; Apr 25 2012 at 05:59 PM.
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  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fifthofnovember View Post
    Developed nations should mind their own business in this regard. If people in third world nations want to die of starvation and plague so that they can screw more, then let them. We should just make sure that their foolishness doesn't affect us, by limiting immigration. It's not like those countries are using up our resources. Not if we don't let them, anyway.
    But after the people in these other countries churn out more babies than they know what to do with, progressives with "caring hearts" are going to tell us that all these grown-up babies have a right to live in my country. So it is one or the other; either force the rest of the world to have fewer children, or agree that outside people have absolutely no right to enter into my country. You cannot have it both ways.

    Honestly, how are we going to defend the environment in our own country otherwise? Look at all the horrible deforestation in India and Africa. And all the rainforest being cut down in Brazil and Indonesia. No one is going to give a care about the environment if everyone becomes poor. Why do you think the Baltic countries dump their untreated sewage and agricultural runoff into the Baltic Sea?

  6. Default

    I don't know how it is in your benighted corner of the world, but here in the USA, progressives have for decades pushed for contraception education measures to be included in any aid programs we finance abroad.

    It is usually the right-wing ignorance mongers like Bush the Lesser who get such measures stripped out or watered down with such stupidity as pushing for Ignorance Only sex education.

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  8. Default

    In the past we had tons of children because many didn't survive their own childhood. Modern medicine has changed that in developed countries. In developing countries, similar problems persist due to poverty and poor living conditions. In developed countries, lack of contraception, certain religious beliefs encouraging having children, and relative poverty contribute to large families. If we don't work towards sorting these problems, making them do anything will have no effect. The problem is that developed nations consume at unsustainable levels. Everyone in the world could not be brought to the same level, we simply don't have the resources. We should do what we can and encourage people to have small families, but we must be realistic about the outcomes of what we try so that our strategies are intelligent.

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  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
    I don't know how it is in your benighted corner of the world, but here in the USA, progressives have for decades pushed for contraception education measures to be included in any aid programs we finance abroad.

    It is usually the right-wing ignorance mongers like Bush the Lesser who get such measures stripped out or watered down with such stupidity as pushing for Ignorance Only sex education.

    Agreed. This thread is really a complete non-starter.

    I'm a progressive, and one who works with uncountable numbers of fellow progressives... and to a man, I've yet to encounter a single associate who doesn't acknowledge that population is the No. 1 problem facing mankind.

    It's the religious cons who want big families.

    Anders, it's an accepted forum protocol to actually provide a link when you quote others' work. Where's yours?

    Here, I'll help you out...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...et-521925.html

    Your link is from 2006, and it doesn't support your thread premise at all. In fact, it says nothing about "progressives." So why don't you do better and provide some literature that supports your claim that progressives are "ignoring population" concerns? Try and find something that's not from some crazy RW rag, thanks.
    Last edited by Jiggs Casey; Apr 28 2012 at 09:07 PM.

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  12. Cool

    Oxford Prof: Overpopulation Root Of All Planet's Problems...

    Stephen Emmott: overpopulation is at the root of all the planet's troubles
    Saturday 14 July 2012 - Science has not shouted out about unchecked human expansion; now, one professor will proclaim its dangers on stage
    Stephen Emmott is a professor of computing at Oxford University and head of Microsoft's Computational Science Laboratory in Cambridge. His lab is devoted to finding new techniques and ideas for solving key scientific problems. One of his research groups works on small-scale issues including the make-up of living cells and includes immunologists and neuroscientists. Another group is focused on global problems including the carbon cycle and is made up of plant biologists and marine ecologists. Emmott, who is 52, is also the star of the forthcoming solo theatrical production Ten Billion, a co-operation between himself and distinguished director Katie Mitchell, whose past works have included A Woman Killed with Kindness at the National Theatre. The show opens at the Royal Court in London this week and focuses on the state our planet will be in when its population reaches 10 billion.

    So what exactly is the play about?

    It's not really a play. I don't know how to describe it. I have been calling it The Thing so far. In effect, the set – at the Upstairs theatre at the Royal Court – is a recreation of my office, which is a dump full of papers and piles of old journals. And there is a whiteboard, I will be drawing a lot on that. You could call it a discourse on the biggest experiment ever carried out by humans. We made a great deal of fuss about the discovery of the Higgs boson. It has been described as the greatest scientific experiment of all time. But it is nothing compared with the experiment humanity is now carrying out on our own planet. Our numbers are set to reach 10 billion – at a very conservative estimate – by the end of the century. Those swelling numbers are destroying ecosystems, polluting the atmosphere and the sea, raising temperatures and melting ice caps and we have no idea what the outcome will be. That is some experiment.

    How did you pick the subject of human population?

    I met Katie Mitchell at a function. She was extremely interested in putting on a theatrical production about science, and she and her colleagues met me and a few members of my laboratory for a long weekend at Aldeburgh to thrash out various ideas. We came up with human population. Human numbers have risen from one billion to our current population of seven billion in 200 years. That is pretty short order, and we have got to that state through our cleverness and inventiveness. But that cleverness and inventiveness are now the sources of all the global problems we face today – and those problems are only going to intensify as our numbers continue to grow. It is really important to talk about overpopulation. Far too many scientists still refuse to discuss the issue. Yet it lies at the heart of all our environmental problems today.

    What is going to happen on stage. Is this an animated lecture or what?
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  13. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland View Post
    Overpopulation is the biggest threat to the environment (not to mention poverty and unemployment).
    No, ignorance -- like yours -- is.
    So why is it that progressives are doing almost nothing about the high fertility rates in the world?
    ?? Excuse me? It has been PROGRESSIVES who have led the way on reducing fertility, from sex education to abortion rights to female literacy education to advocating for contraceptive availability. It is CONSERVATIVES who have resisted those initiatives.

    Every informed person knows these facts. You are therefore either an ignoramus or a liar.
    They say having fewer children is important — but that is all — it is just words.
    Lie. See above.
    Do you really think all those people in India or Africa are going to stop having so many children just because you are telling them?
    They are deciding to have fewer children for their own reasons, and progressives are enabling them to do so.
    And where are all the campaigns and advertising telling them to not to have so many babies? Progressives are doing nearly nothing about this problem!
    Again, that is an absurd lie.
    Some readers here might make the argument that this is all in other countries, and there is nothing you can do. But these peoples children will come as immigrants into the developed countries, as all that overpopulation is creating poverty that is displacing people from the countries with high fertility rates into the countries with lower fertility rates. So if these people have a right to enter into our countries as immigrants, we should also have a right to intervene in the countries from which they are coming from, to promote lower fertility rates.
    And we do... except when stupid, ignorant, hypocritical CONSERVATIVES stop us.
    Last edited by Roy L; Jul 16 2012 at 12:10 PM.

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    Granny says is all dem Chineses fault...

    UN Says New Measures Needed to Address Asia Population Issues
    August 26, 2012 — The chief of the U.N. Population Fund (UNFPA) is calling for Asia governments to give higher priority to women’s development programs. Babatunde Osotimehin says countries should address increasing population concerns with what he called "foresight and justice".
    Greater empowerment for women

    U.N. Population Fund Executive Director Babatunde Osotimehin is calling for greater empowerment of women and young girls to address issues of social inequality and to boost economies as women take up greater roles in development. Before this week's Asian Population conference in Bangkok, Osotimehin says empowering women would reduce violence against women and help boost economic and social development. “Violence against women would reduce considerably, it would reduce the issues of teenage and early marriages, and it would reduce those things, which at this point in time are present in many parts of the world, particularly in this part of the world,” he said.

    Asian Population Association Conference

    The Asian Population Association Conference includes discussions on internal migration and urbanization, trends in household and marriages, childbearing, domestic violence, and trends in aging populations. Osotimehin says Asia is “generally doing well” in providing health services, but issues access need to be addressed. “What we need to drill down and do better is to ensure that there is equitable access - I think that is probably something which we would need to ensure that it is all inclusive," he stated. "And that it is equitable for everybody. That in itself is a global problem, in this region it is just as obvious as in other parts of the world.” The former Nigerian Minister of Health says attention needs to be focused in Asia on the issue of couple's using technology, such as ultrasound, to select male babies. The UNFPA forecasts that by 2030 China and India may have 50 percent more men than women among those seeking marriage.

    Equitable access

    Osotimehin says South Korea has largely solved the problem, but in “other counties” it remains a “serious” issue. “The imbalance is actually getting very serious. The inappropriate use of technologies in other parts we should discourage and we should ensure that we restore the natural balance between boys and girls in these countries. We are working very hard with groups on the ground in those other countries - with government and with civil society in order to address these issues,” he explained.

    He says other regions can learn a lot from Asia, especially how to benefit from from the “demographic advantage” of reduced population growth to boost their economies, as well as Asia’s “good practices” in reproductive health services, especially family planning. Following this conference, Osotimehin visits Burma to hold talks with senior government officials on steps how the UNFP can take to boost Burma’s human development after decades of neglect under military rule.

    Source
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom - Vulcan proverb

  16. Default

    The Earth won't have 7.107 billion of us, by 2030.

    Gentlepersons' bets, up. Will the Earth have MORE or LESS human population, by 2030? By 2040? By 2050?

    By 2100? (I betcha it's LESS, by 2100)
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