Thread: Hansen's Arctic Temperature Defies Physics

Steve Goddard has made a nice little observation about Dr. Hansen's July temperature. His 2-4C arctic anomaly is physically impossible. Its rather simple. Once the temperature rises above freezing the latent heat of the melting ice prevents any significant temperature rise. Extra energy within the system goes to melting the ice. The temperature cannot rise until the ice has melted. This is physics 2 something Hansen should have had back when he was a young undergrad.

http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2...-arctic-again/



As we can see Hansen is showing a 2-4C anomaly over most of the arctic. The problem of course is such a high anomaly violates the laws of physics.

As you can see by the data in the from Denmark's COI while arctic temperature can be quite variable below freezing once the temperature passes freezing the laws of physics kick and added heat goes to the state change of the ice and the temperature flat-lines.



Of course I'm sure the warmmongers will argue that the record is robust etc etc.

Coincidence we both come across unfounded wild Hanson-Claims at the same time......

This guy is all feathers and no guts.........

Originally Posted by Elmer Fudd

Coincidence we both come across unfounded wild Hanson-Claims at the same time......

This guy is all feathers and no guts.........

You can rest assured that the Hansen defenders will come here and use yearly averages to hide the fact that his July temperature is physically impossible. Since the temperature in the high arctic is rarely above freezing the warmmongers can hide the fact that his July numbers are impossible in the high variance of temperature during the rest of the year when the laws of phase transition don't put a cap on temperature .

Yawn. Another straw Hanson rant, big whoop. When Hansen has heard of Mass Extinction Event 6, put a cola on ice, and I'll chug it.

During Phase I of runaway global warming, CO2 and CH4 concentrations both go off the hook, acidification starts to kill ocean life, but high temp records are only moving, in 2010, from 2-1, relative to low-temp records, to 3-1, 2012.

When the northern Arctic ice melts, every summer, and GHGs are way more off the hook, then we will have some kind of temperature information, worth popping some kind of cola about.

Until then, we don't enter Phase II, of runaway global warming. We are still going to hammer our way into Phase II, without any sort of unified response, so as Mass Extinction Event 6 unfolds, climate change will ease natural disasters way up, while various cartoon characters erect straw men and call them names.

Then the straw men will catch fire. Whoopee. All that proves is humans aren't very smart. Guess which ones aren't very smart! ALL KINDS OF HUMANS aren't very smart! That's why we are racing, into Mass Extinction Event 6, without any sort of unification, to slow down our wild approach, into a mass extinction.

You think people could respect STRATEGY, but nooooo. People are playing tactical games, with each other.

Humans will become endangered, toward the end of our lives. Human habitat will start to fail, in Phase I, of runaway warming, but in Phase II, human habitat will FAIL, as the northern cap melts, every summer, and a lot more solar energy starts gathering, in an atmosphere, with relatively dense GHG concentrations.

I wonder if any humans will see Phase III, of runaway warming? That happens when the Greenland and East Antarctic ice sheets are all melted, no Physics 2 heat sinks are evident, and temperature has maxed out, relative to any greenhouse effect, but more GHGs are out-gassing, from volcanic eruptions.

Don't get all doomy and gloomy, but ignoring what is happening is exactly what gay bath-house patrons did, when they kept up the at-risk drugs and sex, to spread HIV, into a deadly AIDS epidemic.

Hey, when I take a bath, I do it by myself, and I wash. Just saying.

Originally Posted by bobgnote

DCon't get all doomy and gloomy

Now that is funny.

Here's a giggle:

The heat sink effect has kept global average temperature rise, to a mere 1 F, since the 1970s. But as the GHG concentrations rise, and perennial ice simultaneously fails, we are approaching a tipping point, when the heat sink will fail, to a degree, northern ice albedo will fail, during northern summers, and the increase in energy will translate, to an acceleration, in warming, when climate change is already evident, while the tipping point approaches.

All this is happening, with relatively mild solar intensity. How's THIS for funny: Into the valley of death rode the 600. Nyuk-nyuk!

Originally Posted by bobgnote

Here's a giggle:

The heat sink effect has kept global average temperature rise, to a mere 1 F, since the 1970s. But as the GHG concentrations rise, and perennial ice simultaneously fails, we are approaching a tipping point, when the heat sink will fail, to a degree, northern ice albedo will fail, during northern summers, and the increase in energy will translate, to an acceleration, in warming, when climate change is already evident, while the tipping point approaches.

All this is happening, with relatively mild solar intensity. How's THIS for funny: Into the valley of death rode the 600. Nyuk-nyuk!

In the end albedo all a number. If decline in northern ice is causing the increase in northern snow extent then the snow extent more than offsets the ice loss as the snow cover is greater than the ice loss and snow has a greater albedo than ice. This would be a negative feedback.

Originally Posted by Windigo

In the end albedo all a number. (coh) If decline in northern ice is causing the increase in northern snow extent then the snow extent more than offsets the ice loss as the snow cover is greater than the ice loss and snow has a greater albedo than ice. (sic) This would be a negative feedback.

East Antarctic sheet ice is increasing, as is certain annual snow and ice accumulations, including this last winter's marginal northern cap ice, which also melted, faster than ever. Perennial ice is failing. The year approaches, when all northern cap ice will be ANNUAL.

This is due to more water in the climate system.

AGAIN, you failed to notice I refer, to PERENNIAL ICE and NORTHERN ICE ALBEDO, which are both more significant than ANNUAL PRECIPITATION, of any kind, snow or ice, included. I tried capitalizing concepts, which you ignored, before, and I see your retention isn't that good, from thread to thread.

When the northern cap is exclusively an ANNUAL PHENOMENON, part of the northern summer will feature absorption, of more solar energy. You might want to save this post, somehow, so you don't forget what is happening OR what I am referring to, which is a trend, which will continue.

You aren't defining your feedback, coherently. If you are into writing what you know, great. Go ahead and blurb this out. But try to experiment with concepts, like coherent English usages and references, for any word-concepts, which you may introduce.

It's the sciencey thing, to do.

When that northern ice fails, the Earth will absorb more energy, agreed? OK, then. The planet is already heating up, more, in the northern hemisphere. So don't pretend this isn't in transition.

What is so hard to understand. Ice and snow reflect radiation this is albedo. If as the warmmongers claim northern ice loss of about 2,000,000km2 has caused in increase in northern snow extent of around 4,000,000 km2 than the albedo from the snow extent exceeds that lost from the sea ice and we have a strong negative feedback.

BTW the minimum of ice loss doesn't occur in the summer. It occurs in the late fall when the arctic sees less than 4 hours of daylight so the albedo at the minimum isn't great.

Originally Posted by Windigo

What is so hard to understand. Ice and snow reflect radiation this is albedo. If as the warmmongers claim northern ice loss of about 2,000,000km2 has caused in increase in northern snow extent of around 4,000,000 km2 than the albedo from the snow extent exceeds that lost from the sea ice and we have a strong negative feedback.

BTW the minimum of ice loss doesn't occur in the summer. It occurs in the late fall when the arctic sees less than 4 hours of daylight so the albedo at the minimum isn't great.

Look. Look and see. WORDS, with DIFFERENT MEANINGS!

1. Perennial: enduring, persistent, beyond annual or otherwise periodic, so look it up;

2. Annual: fails completely, every year, per seasonal variance.

SO, when the ANNUAL ice and snow melt, every summer, there isn't an ice albedo effect, is there! So there is a time, of greater energy absorption, at that time! This happens, NO MATTER HOW MUCH ANNUAL PRECIPITATION FALLS AND ACCUMULATES.

Did you go to one of those schools, where English US is not required?

"Warmongers" isn't plain English, dude. It's a RWNJ rant term, to describe straw men, who can be used, to scare crows away, from corny stuff.

Complete, coherent, punctuated sentences were a minimum, at university. I didn't see you, there! Where were you?

You weren't thinking up a storm, somewhere else, or you would notice RELATIVE ALBEDO, which is already failing, and which may soon completely fail, while the northern days are still relatively long.