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  #481 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MannieD View Post
Are you calling me a liar?

Past Weather for Concord, NH

Notice the record high


Quote:
Originally Posted by teeko View Post
Your graph shows that there was a cooling in Jan 2008. And that is what we have been telling you. Yes we produce CO2 no one said we didn't , It has no effect on warming and cooling . Nature contrils the weather. Did you also read that the CO2 levels were 3 times higher in the ice age?
You are correct January 2008 was cooler than 2007, because, as bugalug already explained, of La Nina. However, November 2008 was warmer than November 2007, so by your logic, there must be a warming trend.
2007/11 0.267
2008/11 0.387
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  #482 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaar View Post
I say it is the warming that is causing the dust storms...
No.You have that backward. "Temperatures on Mars have increased slightly over a 20-year period due to the action of Martian winds, scientists have found."
"In addition, she said, the temperature difference between Mars's light and dark areas may cause an increase in gusty winds, which further perpetuates the cycle."
By your logic, the winds would cease if Mars cools. That is clearly not the case. So even if Mars cools, there will still be winds because of a temperature difference.
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  #483 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MannieD View Post
So you too are denying the earth is getting warmer even though the people that you introduced (like Peiser, Singer, Lindzen etc) to support your posistion admit that GW is happening?
Do you see the problem with your opinion?
Well it's kind of obvious the Earth is getting warmer. I mean, we are not in the middle of the Ice Age we were in 10,000 years ago. The fact that it got warmer 9.900 years before the industrial age should tell you that man had nothing to do with it getting warmer. Dr. Peiser may believe that AGW is real, but his opinion is that:

Quote:
"I do not think anyone is questioning that we are in a period of global warming. Neither do I doubt that the overwhelming majority of climatologists is agreed that the current warming period is mostly due to human impact. However, this majority consensus is far from unanimous".
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
OK - let's check his CV:
Benny Peiser is a social anthropologist with particular research interest in human and cultural evolution.
http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/

Nope - not a scientist.
Quote:
Peiser is a member of the editorial board of Energy and Environment and a scientific advisor to the Lifeboat Foundation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Peiser

If Wiki says he's a scientist, then he must be a scientist. Oh, and it's Dr Benny Peiser to you from now on.

http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/
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  #484 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
OK - let's check his CV:
Benny Peiser is a social anthropologist with particular research interest in human and cultural evolution.
http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/

Nope - not a scientist.
I always get such great information proving my points when I check Bugs' links. From the above link you can link to http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/Scienceletter.htm

where Dr. Peiser is still writing letters to Science Magazine complaining about the exclusion of his letter as well as other simular letters. On the same page is the results of a survey of Climatologists and, well let me just give you the results of the survey here:

Quote:
In the results of a survey of climate scientists conducted in 2003 [3] one question on the survey asked “To what extent do you agree or disagree that climate change is mostly the result of anthropogenic causes? A value of 1 indicates “strongly agree” and a value of 7 indicates “strongly disagree”. Countries, and number of responses from each country are as follows:

USA n = 372;
Canada n = 14;
Germany n = 56;
Italy n = 14;
Denmark n = 5;
Netherlands n = 4;
Sweden n = 5;
France n = 5;
U.K. n = 18;
Australia n = 21;
Norway n = 3;
Finland n = 3;
New Zealand n = 6;
Austria n = 3;
Ethiopia n = 1;
South Africa n = 3;
Poland n = 1
Switzerland n = 7;
Mexico n = 3;
Russia n = 1;
Argentina n = 1;
India n = 3;
Spain n = 2
Japan n = 3;
Brazil n = 1;
Taiwan n = 1;
Bulgaria n = 1

To the question posed above there were 530 valid responses. Descriptive statistics are as follows:

Mean = 3.62; Std. Error of mean = .080; Median = 3.00; Std. deviation = 1.84; Variance = 3.386

Frequencies:
1 strongly agree 50 (9.4% of valid responses)
2 134 (25.3% of valid responses)
3 112 (21.1% of valid responses)
4 75 (14.2% of valid responses)
5 45 (8.5% of valid responses)
6 60 (10.8% valid responses)
7 strongly disagree 54 (9.7% of valid responses)

These results, i.e. the mean of 3.62, seem to suggest that consensus is not all that strong and only 9.4% of the respondents “strongly agree” that climate change is mostly the result of anthropogenic causes. This is however, a slight rise in consensus of the same survey conducted in 1996 [4] that resulted in a mean of 4.1683 to the same question (Five countries – USA, Canada, Germany, Italy, and Denmark only in 1996 survey, N = 511).

In the 1996 survey only 5.7% of the valid responses “strongly agreed” that climate change is mostly the result of anthropogenic causes.

In fact, the results of the two surveys even question the Oreskes’ claim that the majority of climate scientists agree with the IPCC, although this has improved somewhat between 1996 and 2003. In the 1996 survey only 8.2% of the valid responses ‘strongly agreed’ with the statement that the IPCC reports accurately reflect the consensus of thought within the scientific community while in 2003 the number rose to 22.8%. While there is a shift to a greater level of consensus the results however, do not substantiate Oreskes’ claim. Lacking in Oreskes’ approach to analysis is any notion of the dynamics of ‘scientific consensus’.
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  #485 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by PatriotNews View Post
Well it's kind of obvious the Earth is getting warmer. I mean, we are not in the middle of the Ice Age we were in 10,000 years ago. The fact that it got warmer 9.900 years before the industrial age should tell you that man had nothing to do with it getting warmer. Dr. Peiser may believe that AGW is real, but his opinion is that:
in past warming's temp increases led CO2 increases by around 800 yrs which makes sense if the Milankovitch Cycles are the cause....but this particular warming post industrial age CO2 increases are leading temp increases...so this is not your normal Milankovitch warming, the only cause for increased CO2 is man....warming can cause CO2 increases or in today's world increased CO2 can cause warming

Last edited by wyly; 12-16-2008 at 09:00 PM.
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  #486 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by PatriotNews View Post
Well it's kind of obvious the Earth is getting warmer.
Wait!...What!?!? It's kind of obvious the Earth is getting warmer!

but...but... I thought you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotNews View Post
Gee, his graph mysteriously stops at 2000 when the Earth started a cooling cycle.
What happened to the "cooling cycle" that you told us the Earth started in 2000?!?!? The "cooling cycle" you later explained was caused by 'the weather'?

A "cooling cycle" where it is obviously getting warmer! How do they work PartiotNews?

You wouldn't just be making this stuff up as you go along now would you PatriotNews?
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  #487 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
Wait!...What!?!? It's kind of obvious the Earth is getting warmer!

but...but... I thought you said:


What happened to the "cooling cycle" that you told us the Earth started in 2000?!?!? The "cooling cycle" you later explained was caused by 'the weather'?

A "cooling cycle" where it is obviously getting warmer! How do they work PartiotNews?

You wouldn't just be making this stuff up as you go along now would you PatriotNews?
There's a difference between it's warmer than it was 10,000 years ago, than it's cooler than it was 8 years ago. Now you are just being rediculous. You know the difference.
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  #488 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PatriotNews View Post
I always get such great information proving my points when I check Bugs' links. From the above link you can link to http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/Scienceletter.htm

where Dr. Peiser is still writing letters to Science Magazine complaining about the exclusion of his letter as well as other simular letters.
Oh dear PatriotNews - is your memory failing you?

We have already discussed the decidedly non-scientific Benny Peiser and his letters long, long ago.

Yes - poor Benny complained that Science would not print his letters. There was a very good reason for this - they were full of crap. Even old Benny was forced to admit that himself:

Benny Peiser publicly withdrew the criticisms he presented in those letters you are linking to:

...I no longer maintain this particular criticism. In addition, some of the abstracts that I included in the 34 "reject or doubt" category are very ambiguous and should not have been included.

...Only [a] few abstracts explicitly reject or doubt the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) consensus which is why I have publicly withdrawn this point of my critique.

Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/tra...s/s1777013.htm

But you should have known that.

I already told you way back here:
Global Warming

Please stop repeating the same old garbage.

Get it into you head.

Benny Pieser is not a climatologist
Benny Pieser is not an atmospheric physicist
Benny Pieser IS NOT a scientist of any description whatsoever
"Social anthropology" is NOT science.
"Energy and Environment" IS NOT a scientific journal
Benny Peiser has never published any research on climatology
His only claim to fame is that he wrote some letters to Science which were critical of a paper by Naomi Oreskes.
He later withdrew his criticism because he admitted he got it wrong.

And sadly, old Benny is about the only bloke you seem to be able to find to support your statement that "global warming is a myth". That is pretty pathetic PatriotNews. I mean - even you don't seem to agree with yourself any more now! Now you are telling us "Well it's kind of obvious the Earth is getting warmer!" That is quite a "myth"!
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  #489 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
Oh dear PatriotNews - is your memory failing you?

We have already discussed the decidedly non-scientific Benny Peiser and his letters long, long ago.

Yes - poor Benny complained that Science would not print his letters. There was a very good reason for this - they were full of crap. Even old Benny was forced to admit that himself:

Benny Peiser publicly withdrew the criticisms he presented in those letters you are linking to:

...I no longer maintain this particular criticism. In addition, some of the abstracts that I included in the 34 "reject or doubt" category are very ambiguous and should not have been included.

...Only [a] few abstracts explicitly reject or doubt the AGW (anthropogenic global warming) consensus which is why I have publicly withdrawn this point of my critique.

Email from Benny Peiser to Media Watch

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/tra...s/s1777013.htm

But you should have known that.

I already told you way back here:
Global Warming

Please stop repeating the same old garbage.

Get it into you head.

Benny Pieser is not a climatologist
Benny Pieser is not an atmospheric physicist
Benny Pieser IS NOT a scientist of any description whatsoever
"Social anthropology" is NOT science.
"Energy and Environment" IS NOT a scientific journal
Benny Peiser has never published any research on climatology
His only claim to fame is that he wrote some letters to Science which were critical of a paper by Naomi Oreskes.
He later withdrew his criticism because he admitted he got it wrong.

And sadly, old Benny is about the only bloke you seem to be able to find to support your statement that "global warming is a myth". That is pretty pathetic PatriotNews. I mean - even you don't seem to agree with yourself any more now! Now you are telling us "Well it's kind of obvious the Earth is getting warmer!" That is quite a "myth"!
Again, ad hominum attacks are a falacious argument that you resort to time and time again. Yet, you are attacking Dr Benny Pieser again, when you have said in an earlier post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
[b]
I have not attacked Andrew Bolt and Benny Peiser. I have attacked you for using them as sources, and for lying about Benny Peiser's qualifications.
Dr. Pieser stands by his letter, if you would only read the link. He withdrew critizisms of one part of someone else's study. He does stand by the entire letter aside from that as is proved here:
(referenced above)
Quote:
14 April 2005
I very much regret your decision to reject my letter using a contrived technicality as an excuse. Obviously, your refusal leaves me no option than to publicise the results of my analysis somewhere else (results which anyone can of course verify) - but also to deplore the sad reality of your refusal to publish corrections of a fatally flawed paper.

With best regards

Benny Peiser
Liverpool John Moores University
Faculty of Science
But I guess you didn't bother to read the link I provided (which I got from your link again). Asside from being on the Faculty of Science at Liverpool John Moores University, I have already mentioned that he is a scientific advisor. Someone must consider him a scientist, even if you don't.

As far as you MediaWatch source that you referenced yet again, perhaps you are the one who is forgetful, that is the source I got the quote from Andrew Bolt from. It was your link. Then you critized me for using a quote from him which was from your link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotNews View Post
every link you provide me gives me more information which proves my point. I think you are selectively choosing verbage which supports your theory, and ignoring that which does not. This is from the link you provided:

Whatever nuance you may now have uncovered to criticise this list, the basic fact remains as this reveals: When Gore suggests there is absolutely no scientific debate on man-made global warming he is not telling the truth.

— Andrew Bolt to Media Watch, 27th October, 2006
I have given you many other scientists as well. I have posted many peer-reviewed articles that support what I have said. If you want me to name them and list them all over again forget it. Just do a search of my posts, and all the others as well who have listed scientists and articles. Then try reading them instead of pretending they don't exist.

Oh, and I am waiting for your appology. You have been calling me a liar for saying Dr Pierser was a scientist, I ask that you prove he is not a scientist, then I prove he is a scientist, so you should appologize. Right now. In your next post.
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  #490 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 11:29 PM
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In the results of a survey of climate scientists conducted in 2003 [3] one question on the survey asked “To what extent do you agree or disagree that climate change is mostly the result of anthropogenic causes? A value of 1 indicates “strongly agree” and a value of 7 indicates “strongly disagree”. Countries, and number of responses from each country are as follows:
What sort of a survey is that?

“To what extent do you agree or disagree that climate change is mostly the result of anthropogenic causes? !!!

Anyone who would strongly agree with that is a fool.

As we are all aware - in the big scheme of things, anthropogenic causes are a minor and relatively insignificant cause of climate change, when compared to things like the Milankovich Cycles. BUT - anthropogenic causes are having a very significant impact on climates that will impact on human habitation in the short term (geologically speaking). This is what we need to address.
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