CO2 normally does follow temp, there is a lag of 400-1000yrs normally, but in this present warming CO2 is preceeding and driving temp...so why the difference?...a CO2 spike before temp is the smoking gun of anthropogenic climate change...

to me! Iv'e seen before and after pics from searching. It's shocking to think that anyone would not take this serious. Perhaps man is not to blame but still, we are losing the icecaps!!!
However, In 1990, China produced a billion tons of coal (first info on search). A train load is only 15,000 tons. I forgot how many cars that is but 66,666 such train loads fits in China's yearly total. Now consider (Ok, another search...) Wow! that pound for pound, coal releases about TWICE its weight on average? in co2 emission! Now consider what America uses and other nations, it's like crazy to think that we can not match a super volcano within just a few decades. And since co2 is only .02 (or so) percent of the air, that such "small" differences might really matter.
Oh ya, then there's the other dwindling fossils to consider which will lead to post oil crises. That in itself is cause enough to go a long with this GW "thing".
So how do we deal with that? It's simple in science but impossible in politics, that is: Make laws that require clean energy to displace coal and oil through attrition, that is, build no more new power plants unless they produce near zero emissions! How? By CSP. It is a very simple task to cover 10,000 square miles of desert (within 30 years) with mirrors that reflect sunlight upon a fluid that fills an insulated reservoir for on demand electrical generation. Concentrated Solar thermal Power would indeed solve all of the jobs, energy, and GW problems! That chunk of land would power ALL things American if converted to electric.
Another solution is in nutrient rich soil since it retains co2 and is needed to grow more trees and such that sucks more co2. I think the ancients proved how to convert deserts into such...

They have bveen linked in this Thread already...

Some people just don't get it, it seems.

__________________
"...I shall prefer emigrating to some country where they make no
pretense of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism
can be taken pure, and without the base alloy hypocrisy."

Abraham Lincoln

No - some people don't get it, do they Gaar.

Yes - we all agree that historically CO2 levels follow temperature, and not vice versa.

But this time it is different, isn't it Gaar


As posted elsewhere (2008: The year man-made global warming was disproved), this graph


clearly shows some 500,000 years of climate change due to orbital variation (Milankovich cycles). At the extreme right of the graph - "the present" - where we are clearly in an interglacial warm period - but instead of CO2 and temperature starting to head south again towards the next ice age as we would expect, CO2 has rocketed to around 380ppm. This is a level way above anything that has been seen in the preceeding 500,000 years.

Can you explain any other reason for CO2 to increase so rapidly in the very recent past?

Can you explain why in this interglacial period - the CO2 level is far greater than it was in the previous 4 interglacial periods?

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precipitates increased temps. If it was the other way, then higher temps would cause more vegetation which may cause more co2 only if the soil becomes LESS nutrient rich?
`~'
I'm sure there is a methane thing and a decreased albedo to consider... as the reflective surfaces of the great white ice caps disappear (and the ocean boils methanehydrates)! The solution to that (b4 it happens) would be billions of mirrors used for CSP, after which are decommissioned and used solely for reflecting the sun back into space to higher albedo (and lower overall global temps).
The great Big Bear/Las Vegas snow storm only temporarily solves that problem...

I have seen many graphs but have you seen the glaciers lately?

Nope, you just choose to ignore the Science.

That isn't my fault...

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Ca...s_climate.html

Average global temperatures in the Early Carboniferous Period were hot- approximately 20° C (68° F). However, cooling during the Middle Carboniferous reduced average global temperatures to about 12° C (54° F). As shown on the chart below, this is comparable to the average global temperature on Earth today!

Similarly, atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the Early Carboniferous Period were approximately 1500 ppm (parts per million), but by the Middle Carboniferous had declined to about 350 ppm -- comparable to average CO2 concentrations today!

Earth's atmosphere today contains about 380 ppm CO2 (0.038%). Compared to former geologic times, our present atmosphere, like the Late Carboniferous atmosphere, is CO2- impoverished! In the last 600 million years of Earth's history only the Carboniferous Period and our present age, the Quaternary Period, have witnessed CO2 levels less than 400 ppm.

There has historically been much more CO2 in our atmosphere than exists today. For example, during the Jurassic Period (200 mya), average CO2 concentrations were about 1800 ppm or about 4.7 times higher than today. The highest concentrations of CO2 during all of the Paleozoic Era occurred during the Cambrian Period, nearly 7000 ppm -- about 18 times higher than today.

The Carboniferous Period and the Ordovician Period were the only geological periods during the Paleozoic Era when global temperatures were as low as they are today. To the consternation of global warming proponents, the Late Ordovician Period was also an Ice Age while at the same time CO2 concentrations then were nearly 12 times higher than today-- 4400 ppm. According to greenhouse theory, Earth should have been exceedingly hot. Instead, global temperatures were no warmer than today. Clearly, other factors besides atmospheric carbon influence earth temperatures and global warming.

__________________
"...I shall prefer emigrating to some country where they make no
pretense of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism
can be taken pure, and without the base alloy hypocrisy."

Abraham Lincoln

so I'm thinkin' how does anyone know exactly how much CO2 there was millions of years ago without the benfit of ice core samples, which go back maybe 600,000 yrs

who are "plant fossils of West virginia" and who is Monte Hieb what are his qualifications?

well Monte Hieb is a mining engineer, coal mining, amatuer fossil collector, CC denialist...zero qualification as a climatologist...

he's a fraud...

maybe I should go next door and ask my neighbour the cab driver his opinion of AGW it's about as relevant as Hieb's

Of course the Jurassic would have more CO2 due to all the volcanism, but could we survive it? Certainately, there would be no more skiing. Perhaps the air would be fowled with methane from the oceans (maybe there was less of that in the oceans at that time to worry about).

Perhaps it would be possible but I doubt that we could live with the anoxic oceans...

Also, it is possible to have a cooler Earth with more CO2. Perhaps another one of those more frequent asteroids struck to cool things down during volcanism. Today, we can imagine a giant mirror across the deserts...

We should all deal with post oil crises and the melting of the icecaps and the money problems by building a green grid that use mirrors (CSP). That simple (over 30 years)!

Thanks for the history lesson.

Now:

Can you explain why atmospheric CO2 has increased so rapidly in the very recent past?

Can you explain why in this interglacial period - the CO2 level is far greater than it was in the previous 4 interglacial periods?

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