Any other bright ideas, Mr President?

This actually may be an indication that the War in Iraq would kind of go away if Bush & Company didn't keep on pushing the battle. Not to be naive, the former Baathist type Sunni and Shiite clearly have some major differences of opinion, but this attitude among the Kurds does beg the question: How much are all the groups willing to fight for? It looks to me (and others), like all sides would be willing to pull back into their own corners. Yes in time they may have to fight to keep some of their turf, and Baghdad seems to be just like Jerusalem in that many people would like to keep it somewhat neutral territory.

These kind of actions by the Kurds are so predictable. I just can't understand why the leadership in Iraq, including Americans, have such trouble seeing a bigger, more complete picture.

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Hobo
Charter member of 'Republicans Who Hate Bush" Club

Hobo laments I do not blame the Kurds for weighing out instead of weighing in. Kurds really only want complete independence, autonomy, or a loose federation of semi related factions and they would like to take it in the priority order.

If the two Arab groups want to fight it out the Kurds can hold off and deal with whichever of then comes out on top. I am not an expert on Iraq but I will venture to say that the Kurds are more concerned with the viability of their own ethnic group than a connection with the one Arab Iraqians with which they share the same religious cult identity. Ok I should have said sect not cult, so be it !!!!

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"I will not take the low road to the highest office in the land" - Guess Who? You go it !

The Kurds civil war is waiting in Turkey.

The whole region needs to allow the natural withering away of these faux borders that exist. Western Iran and Eastern Iraq are naturally an Arab led Shia region, Central Iran is naturally a secular Persia, Northern Iraq and Southern Turkey are naturally a Kurdistan, SA is naturally a compilation of tribal and sectarian fiefdoms that would not hold together in the absence of American subsidized security (a bunch of UAE's), etc., etc.

Western efforts to maintain these artificial states to simplify geopolitical ends is destined to fail in the absence of brute force (ala Saddam Hussein). The latter is fine if we seriously decide to use it, if not, why even fool around.

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"I have been made victorious through terror" ~ the profit mohammed (Bukhari 4:52:220)

The truth hurts, but not as bad as a being beheaded.

The Kurds are fools. Their choice is to belong to a unified democratic iraq, with significant political power, or Turkey, with very little. That all the idiots in iraq can't see beyond their tribes, in an era of nation states, probably means doom for them all.

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Read this post quick before the mods delete it!

Kurdish Iraqi soldiers are deserting to avoid the conflict in Baghdad By Leila Fadel and Yaseen Taha McClatchy Newspapers
SULAIMANIYAH, Iraq - As the Iraqi government attempts to secure a capital city ravaged by conflict between Sunni and Shiite Muslim Arabs, its decision to bring a third party into the mix may cause more problems than peace.
Kurdish soldiers from northern Iraq, who are mostly Sunnis but not Arabs, are deserting the army to Kurdish Iraqi soldiers are deserting to avoid the conflict in Baghdad By Leila Fadel and Yaseen Taha McClatchy Newspapers
SULAIMANIYAH, Iraq - As the Iraqi government attempts to secure a capital city ravaged by conflict between Sunni and Shiite Muslim Arabs, its decision to bring a third party into the mix may cause more problems than peace.
Kurdish soldiers from northern Iraq, who are mostly Sunnis but not Arabs, are deserting the army to avoid the civil war in Baghdad, a conflict they consider someone else's problem.

Generals in Irbil and Sulaimaniyah begged the Ministry of Defense to choose brigades out of Kirkuk that spoke Arabic to help in Baghdad, brigade commander Dolani said. Ghaidan wouldn't explain why entire Kurdish brigades weren't being transferred from the north.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/16502266.htm


"Doesn't look like our guys are too keen to fight.
a conflict they consider someone else's problem."


These are the Iraqi troops that Bush said were coming down from the north to reinforce Iraqi troops that are fighting in Baghdad.

Isn't this virtually the same topic that Apotski started???

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"I will not take the low road to the highest office in the land" - Guess Who? You go it !

Yes it is. Sorry about that.

JAKE takes on a rather myopic view of the Kurdish desire for independence The Kurds choices are not limited to Iraq or Turkey. Their primary chioce is independence. They also want independence and self determination so they do not need to choose between democracy and independence. Furthermore why not achive independence first and then they can set up whatever type of government they want.

The virtual area of Kurdistan also includes Iran and a minor slice of Armenia and a sliver of Syria so the Kurdish question is complicated.

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"I will not take the low road to the highest office in the land" - Guess Who? You go it !

Many of us seem to have read the same information that has been put out by the mass media regarding the Kurds. These are really the indigenous peoples who have lived in that area of the world since the beginning of recorded history. They have their own language, maintained their traditional mountain living culture living but have never had their own country. The fates of history have not smiled on the Kurds, even though they have played significant roles in many Middle Eastern wars. Perhaps the most ironic to Western history is that "Saladin", born in Tikrît, Iraq, was a famous Kurdish warrior that fought against Richard the Lion-Hearted in the Third Crusade and kept the Christians from conquering Jerusalem. Funny how these towns in the Middle East have a way of repeating themselves again.

The point is the Kurds, Sunni and Shiite have related to each other for thousands of years. The conversion of Sunni to Shiite, on a large scale, happened relatively recently in Iran (in the 18th century). It happened even more recently in the 19th century in the south-eastern provinces of Iraq. Remember, the people of the region have co-existed together under their own terms.

Western powers are notorious for causing more problems than they solve when they become involved in Middle Eastern affairs. This was true after WWI when artificial border lines were created to carve up the Middle East into countries. It was true when the British occupied the area and tried to establish Pax Britannia in the region using British soldiers to maintain an artificial peace. It was especially true when the Jewish nation of Israel was inserted into heartland of the Middle East. It was true when the US imposed the dictator Shah of Iran on a fledgling democratic nation to ensure the flow of oil to the West did not stop.

What will happen when Iraq is finally given the power to seek its own equilibrium in government? No one knows for certain, but history has shown that the people who live there are not naturally factious or selfish about wanting the whole pie. Left to their own resources, the final outcome in Iraq may very well be superior in the long run than any solution imposed by the US with its military.

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Hobo
Charter member of 'Republicans Who Hate Bush" Club