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Old 04-02-2008, 01:57 PM
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Anywho, I am not denying the fact that crimes were committed against the Kosovar Serbs. But what the Albanians did, the Serbs did tenfold
Now that's a start. I can talk to you on rational basis. Yes, Serbs did more because Serbs had the might in the conflict. Bigger guns give bigger chance to mess things up.

I have no problem with admitting crimes, nor with apologizing and even prosecuting the guilty ones. But I am instantly offended when someone starts denying his own wrong-doings, when the facts speak differently. You seem to have far more reason than the funny guy - TrueAlbo.
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Albanians were (chronologically): Turkish horse breeders, Hitler's little pawns, Stalin's servants and today they are Uncle Sam's "allies".
Albanians from Kosovo ethnically cleansed more than 250,000 non-Albanians: Serbs, Jews, Gypsies and others; desecrated more than 150 Christian churches and monasteries and killed thousands in cold blood.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:43 AM
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There's nothing "funny" about what TrueAlbo posted. Believe it or not, that's how things went.

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The flight of the ethnic Albanian population from Kosovo was executed with a degree of coordination and control that render it impossible to reach any conclusion other than systematic forced expulsion. At least four factors are key in determining that a policy of "ethnic cleansing" was carried out in Kosovo: First is the timing of the refugees' arrival-refugees arrived in Macedonia and Albania from the same areas on the same dates, and at various times (notably during negotiations) the flow of refugees stopped or was switched from one border to another. Second is the means of departure: refugees were expelled into Macedonia by train, which allowed the efficient removal of thousands of persons a day. Others, including many of those sent to Albania who did not have their own transportation, were taken by trucks and buses organized by the Serbian police. Collection points were used to facilitate expulsion. Third is the use of threats and violence to terrorize the population into departing, a central element of "ethnic cleansing," observed frequently during the wars in Bosnia and Croatia. Fourth is the practice of "identity cleansing": refugees expelled toward Albania were frequently stripped of their identity documents and forced to remove the license plates from their cars and tractors before being permitted to cross the border.
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The pattern of departure of many of the refugees also strongly points to organized expulsion rather than spontaneous departure
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/kosovo/undword-03.htm



The crimes committed by the Serbs, are the worst in Europe since 1945.

Last edited by xDonnax; 04-04-2008 at 02:44 AM.
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Old 04-04-2008, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by xDonnax View Post



The crimes committed by the Serbs, are the worst in Europe since 1945.
Since this war was the only one in Europe since 1945, it was the omly opportunity to commit war crimes. Albanian crimes are on the top of the list as well.
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Albanians were (chronologically): Turkish horse breeders, Hitler's little pawns, Stalin's servants and today they are Uncle Sam's "allies".
Albanians from Kosovo ethnically cleansed more than 250,000 non-Albanians: Serbs, Jews, Gypsies and others; desecrated more than 150 Christian churches and monasteries and killed thousands in cold blood.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AmusedToDeath View Post
Since this war was the only one in Europe since 1945, it was the omly opportunity to commit war crimes. Albanian crimes are on the top of the list as well.

The Kosovar Government, with the support of its people didn't ethnic cleanse over 1 million people out of their homes, nor did they rape over 20.000 women, and killed over 10.000 ethnic Albanians. Nor was the Kosovar Government involved in the Croatian and Bosnian war where over 200.000 people were killed and where over 2 million people were forced out of their homes.



All this was an organized expulsion by the Chauvinistic regime of Serbia, by Milosevic and his CO, supported by the majority of the Serbs.


Now almost 10 years after the war in Kosova, and after Milosevic's death, "his" mindset lives on in his people. It's sad.
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Old 04-05-2008, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by TrueAlbo2006 View Post
The following is a partial list of war crimes, violations of international humanitarian law, or other human rights violations reported throughout Kosovo:

Forcible Displacement of Ethnic Albanian Civilians
Serbian authorities conducted a campaign of forced population movement on a scale seldom seen in Europe since the 1940s. They drove the vast majority of the ethnic Albanian population from their homes. The Serbian regime's claim that this population outflow was the result of voluntary flight in fear of NATO airstrikes is not supported by the accounts of victims. Victims consistently reported being expelled from their homes by Serbian forces at gunpoint, in contrast to the fighting of 1998, when the bulk of the internally displaced persons (IDPs) and refugees fled to escape the crossfire or to avoid reprisals by Serbian security forces. Many victims were herded onto trains and other organized transport and expelled from the province. In addition, Serbian forces expelled the majority of Kosovar Albanians from urban areas such as Djakovica. Refugees say that those forced to remain behind were used as human shields.

Serbian forces also disguised themselves as refugees to prevent targeting from NATO aircraft. Refugees claimed that on May 6, Serbian forces dressed in white hats and jackets with Red Cross and Red Crescent logos moved with convoys of IDPs between Djakovica and Brekovac. In order to conceal their military cargo, Serbian forces covered their wagons with plastic tarpaulins taken from NGOs.

In contrast to 1998, when Serbian security forces attacked small villages, Yugoslav Army units and armed civilians this year joined the police in systematically expelling ethnic Albanians at gunpoint from both villages and the larger towns of Kosovo. Serbian authorities forced many refugees to sign disclaimers saying they were leaving Kosovo of their own free will. Victims also reported that the Serbian forces confiscated their personal belongings and documentation, including national identity papers, and told them to take a last look around because they would never return to Kosovo. Many of the places targeted had not been the scenes of previous fighting or UCK activity. This indicates that the Serbian expulsions were an exercise in ethnic cleansing and not a part of a legitimate security or counter-insurgency operation, but instead a plan to cleanse the province of a significant proportion of its ethnic Albanian population.

Looting of Homes and Businesses
There are numerous reports from victims and the press of Serbian forces going house to house robbing residents before burning their homes. In addition, Kosovar Albanian victims claimed that Serbian forces robbed them of all their personal belongings before they crossed the borders.
Destroyed village in southern Kosovo
Destroyed village in southern Kosovo. This scene is typical of villages where buildings are being reconstructed this summer that were previously destroyed by Serbian forces in southern Kosovo. Photo date August 1999.

Widespread Burning of Homes
Over 1,200 residential areas, including over 500 villages, were burned after late March, 1999. Most Serbian homes and stores remained intact during the conflict, and Serbian civilians in many towns painted a Cyrillic "S" on their doors so that Serbian forces would not attack their homes by mistake. The destruction is much more extensive and thorough than that which occurred in the summer of 1998. Many settlements were totally destroyed in an apparent attempt to ensure that the Kosovar Albanian population could not return. Serbian forces reportedly burned all houses previously rented to the OSCE in Vucitrn, Stimlje, and Kosovska Mitrovica. Mass burnings of villages waned towards the end of the campaign, by time many Kosovar Albanian homes had been abandoned. Those homes that were still intact were sometimes taken over by Serbian security forces.

Kosovar Albanians have reported that over 500 villages burned from late March 1999. The following villages are confirmed as having been mostly burned or entirely destroyed.
Bajcina
Bajgora
Banja
Batlava
Bela Crvka
Bradas
Celina
Crebnik
Crni Lug
Dobr Do
Donja Penduha
Donja Lapistica
Donji Streoci
Dumos
Gajrak
Gede
Godisnjak
Gorane



Gornja Zakut
Gornje Pakistica
Gornji Crnobreg
Gornji Streoci
Jablanica
Jovic
Kacandol
Klincina
Letance
Lipovac
Luzane
Mamusa
Madare
Mala Hoca
Malisevo
Mirusa
Neprebiste
Novo Selo Begovo
Ostrozub
Pakistica
Pantina
Pasoma
Radoste
Randubrava
Retimnje Rogovo
Skorosnik
Slatina
Smac
Sopnic
Stanica Donje Ljupce
Suvi Do
Vlaski Drenovac
Vucitrn
Vujitun
Zrze
Zym

Use of Human Shields
Serbian forces compelled Kosovar Albanians to accompany Serbian military convoys and shield facilities throughout the province. The extent to which civilians were used to shield military assets is difficult to measure, because Serbian units also escorted or herded Kosovar Albanians in the course of military operations.

Beginning in mid-April, Serbian forces used Kosovar Albanian men to shield military convoys from NATO airstrikes. Serbian forces reportedly removed young Kosovar Albanian men from refugee columns and forced them to form a buffer zone around Serbian convoys. Numerous Kosovar Albanians claimed to have witnessed and participated in this activity on the roads between Pec, Djakovica, and Kosovska Mitrovica.

In at least one instance--Korisa--Serbian forces intentionally positioned ethnic Albanians at sites that they believed were targets for NATO airstrikes. In other instances, unconfirmed reports say Kosovar Albanians were kept concealed within NATO target areas apparently to generate civilian casualties that could be blamed on NATO. In addition, Kosovar Albanian reports claimed that Serbian forces compelled Kosovar Albanian men to don Serbian military uniforms, probably so they could not be distinguished by NATO and UCK surveillance.

Detentions
Kosovar Albanians have claimed that Serbian forces systematically separated military-aged ethnic Albanian men--ranging from as young as 14 to 59 years old--from the population as they expelled Kosovar Albanians from their homes.

Refugees reported early in April that Serbian forces used the Ferro-Nickel factory in Glogovac as a detention center for a large number of Kosovar Albanians.

According to refugees, a cement factory in Deneral Jankovic had also been temporarily used as a detention center for Kosovar Albanians. The prisoners reportedly were released in late April.

From May 21 to early June, some 2,000 Kosovar Albanian men entered Albania after being detained by Serbian forces for three weeks in a prison in Smrekovnica near Srbica. Serbian authorities were apparently looking for UCK members and sympathizers among the prisoners. While detaining the men, the Serbian authorities forced them to dig trenches and physically abused many of them. After interrogations, the detainees were loaded on buses and driven to Zhure, from where they walked to the border.
The Serbians attacked there own police in 1998, killed there own people, raped there own women...KLA was freedom fighting army, not terrorists, led by honest and good people that war born in Kosovo not Albania.
And no Albanians were killed during the fights with Serbian forces.KLA did not have any loses. All Albanians wore civilians. No Albanians died in the bombing, no town or village or house was destroyed by the bombing. Yugoslav forces moved throw Kosovo during the bombing with ease. The NATO airplanes would not hit them. The Colum with Albanian refugees was hit by the Serb forces not NATO.No Albanians were fleeing from Kosovo because the bombing, there was mass fleeing before the bombing began, there is TV evidence of this. And when Serb forces left Kosovo the Serbs burned their own houses, kidnapped themselves, destroyed there churches. That is why there are more Serbians in Kosovo then before the 1999.And Serbians can move freely throw Kosovo, they have absolute freedom. And they are all mass killers.

And the aliens landed on earth!!!!


Like i said before there are two sides of the story.
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by marko.t View Post


Like i said before there are two sides of the story.
No, there are 3 sides; A,B and the truth. Why do you think NATO intervened? Did you expect the World to sit back and watch another >200. 000 people get killed, which was what happened in Bosnia.



Quote:
The flight of the ethnic Albanian population from Kosovo was executed with a degree of coordination and control that render it impossible to reach any conclusion other than systematic forced expulsion. At least four factors are key in determining that a policy of "ethnic cleansing" was carried out in Kosovo: First is the timing of the refugees' arrival-refugees arrived in Macedonia and Albania from the same areas on the same dates, and at various times (notably during negotiations) the flow of refugees stopped or was switched from one border to another. Second is the means of departure: refugees were expelled into Macedonia by train, which allowed the efficient removal of thousands of persons a day. Others, including many of those sent to Albania who did not have their own transportation, were taken by trucks and buses organized by the Serbian police. Collection points were used to facilitate expulsion. Third is the use of threats and violence to terrorize the population into departing, a central element of "ethnic cleansing," observed frequently during the wars in Bosnia and Croatia. Fourth is the practice of "identity cleansing": refugees expelled toward Albania were frequently stripped of their identity documents and forced to remove the license plates from their cars and tractors before being permitted to cross the border.
The ethnic cleansing in Kosova was an organized expulsion.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/kosovo/undword-03.htm
( Human Rights Watch )
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by xDonnax View Post
No, there are 3 sides; A,B and the truth. Why do you think NATO intervened? Did you expect the World to sit back and watch another >200. 000 people get killed, which was what happened in Bosnia.





The ethnic cleansing in Kosova was an organized expulsion.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/kosovo/undword-03.htm
( Human Rights Watch )

So it means that the expulsion was during the bombing. Also there was no train deportation, or with bus. And the Albanian Colum that was killed by NATO was returning from border to kosovo.Wich means that they were returning home.And they were hit by NATO.The YU -army could not move during the war,it was pined down by NATO airplanes. There are no evidence of plan to clean kosovo. Maybe there was a plan but there are no evidence.
And the thing why NATO intervened, common do you expect that somebody in US and west Europe cares about Albanians or Serbs?If they care abbot people they would stop the mass death in africa. Bout from civil war and starving. A child dies in africa every minute of starving.

By the way Serb enclaves are surrounded by barbwayer and tenks.
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:43 AM
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First you say that there was no organized expulsion. Then you change it to "maybe", cause there are no "evidence". But reality has its own language, everything points to an organized expulsion.


The expulsion of the ethnic Albanians was going on before NATO decided to bomb. That's why Nato intervened, to stop the ethnic cleansing, mass murder and rapes. They already made a mistake during the Bosnian war, and same mistake was not going to be made again in Kosova.
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by xDonnax View Post
First you say that there was no organized expulsion. Then you change it to "maybe", cause there are no "evidence". But reality has its own language, everything points to an organized expulsion.


The expulsion of the ethnic Albanians was going on before NATO decided to bomb. That's why Nato intervened, to stop the ethnic cleansing, mass murder and rapes. They already made a mistake during the Bosnian war, and same mistake was not going to be made again in Kosova.
Not true. Albanian propaganda, full of lies.

Let me tell you one thing, and remember it very well: If Serbia had wanted to exterminate all the Albanians in Kosovo - you would have been annihilated within 1 week, or less. So stop posting nonsense. Serbian army and police forces fought KLA terrorists, not Albanian civilians.
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Albanians are Islamo-fascists supported by Bin Laden and trained in Al-Qaeda terrorist camps.
Albanians were (chronologically): Turkish horse breeders, Hitler's little pawns, Stalin's servants and today they are Uncle Sam's "allies".
Albanians from Kosovo ethnically cleansed more than 250,000 non-Albanians: Serbs, Jews, Gypsies and others; desecrated more than 150 Christian churches and monasteries and killed thousands in cold blood.

Last edited by AmusedToDeath; 04-05-2008 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:31 AM
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Nonesense? According to whom? You? Nothing new there, mate.

It's nothing new that Serbs live in denial. 3 wars behind you, yet you choose view yourselves as "victims". The Majority of the Serbs were supportive of Milosevic and his CO. Milosevic didn't burn down the houses by himself, nor did he kill and rape thousands of civilians. He had his people to do the "dirty work" for him.

This was done willfully by the Serbs as a National act, institutionalized and implemented by the Serbian leaders.


Quote:
The pattern of departure of many of the refugees also strongly points to organized expulsion rather than spontaneous departure.

Quote:
Whatever the explanation, the practice of "identity cleansing" was clearly not a random initiative by Serbian officials on the border. After the war, piles of license plates and burned documents were discovered by the border crossings into Albania and elsewhere in Kosovo.


Quote:
Each one of these four factors (the timing of arrivals, the means of departure, the use of terror and the practice of "identity cleansing") strongly suggest that the flight of some 860,000 Albanians from Kosovo in twelve weeks adds up to systematic forced expulsion.

Quote:
The Serbian and Yugoslav authorities knew that their paramilitaries had used rape and other forms of sexual violence in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Yet, the paramilitaries were deployed to or allowed to operate in Kosovo by the Serbian and Yugoslav authorities apparently without any precautions being taken to prevent their committing further such war crimes.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/kosovo/undword-03.htm


This is just sick!!


This was done willfully by the Serbs as a National act, institutionalized and implemented by the Serbian leaders.

You can deny it all you want, but the reality has its own language.
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