Doma Lawyers Back Out.

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Originally Posted by dixon76710

Irrelevant to frustrated homosexuals.

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No, dixon. It's about being reasonable, not 'frustration'. I KNOW you are making good sense... and many others can see that as well. Get real man.

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Determinative in 44 states...

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And the logic which has somehow arbitrarily supported such 'determinations', is being effectively challenged... case-by-case. If you don't admit that, I understand, but intellectually I'll never accept it.

Procreation isn't enough to deny people the thing(s) they are seeking; and I think you KNOW it.

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...with marriage limited to heterosexuals and determinative for 1000s of years of marriages history.

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1000's of years... may explain your beliefs and values, of course. But it isn't some incontrovertible mindset which will sustain ALL laws as written; things are changing whether you like/believe or not. Change is IN-PROGRESS for many good and perfectly valid reasons.

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Originally Posted by Johnny-C

1000's of years... may explain your beliefs and values, of course. But it isn't some incontrovertible mindset which will sustain ALL laws as written; things are changing whether you like/believe or not. Change is IN-PROGRESS for many good and perfectly valid reasons.

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The debate isnt about what should be or will be someday, but instead, what is relevant now and in 44 states, in dozens of court cases upholding the constitutionality of marriage limited to heterosexual couples, in several federal court cases upholding the constitutionality of DOMA and in the Obama administrations defense of DOMA, Procreation is not only relevant but is in fact, not only the reason why marriage has been limited to heterosexual couples, but why such a limitation doent in any way contradict the constitution of the US.

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Originally Posted by dixon76710

The debate isnt about what should be or will be someday, but instead, what is relevant now and in 44 states, in dozens of court cases upholding the constitutionality of marriage limited to heterosexual couples, in several federal court cases upholding the constitutionality of DOMA and in the Obama administrations defense of DOMA, Procreation is not only relevant but is in fact, not only the reason why marriage has been limited to heterosexual couples, but why such a limitation doent in any way contradict the constitution of the US.

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The Obama administration hasn't upheld DOMA. It has openly stated the justice department will not defend it against cases brought against it.

You still haven't made a case for procreation being the reason for marriage. You can't even make a case for why procreation is required for marriage. You flip flop more than a flounder while you flounder around posting circular logic on here.

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Originally Posted by dixon76710

The debate isnt about what should be or will be someday, but instead, what is relevant now and in 44 states, in dozens of court cases upholding the constitutionality of marriage limited to heterosexual couples...

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You aren't facing reality; of course, in YOUR mind the above describes where YOU think the discussion, arguments or protests should end. I had that many many hundreds of your posts ago.

I and others are here to either inform or remind you, that what YOU see in all of this, is surely NOT all that there is or will be. This is a real FIGHT for equal rights, not some mere academic setting where everyone other than you is a student. We're IN THE FIGHT.

We know enough of what the ruling are, to accept the reality that the CHALLENGES presently against certain laws, are valid and worthwhile. Yes, if necessary we will CONTINUE the overall contentions against your position politically and/or legally.

Yes, we are aware of the effects of the "laws" you claim to know... but we also know that those laws can/should be challenged (even directly so).

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Originally Posted by Osiris Faction

The Obama administration hasn't upheld DOMA. It has openly stated the justice department will not defend it against cases brought against it.

You still haven't made a case for procreation being the reason for marriage. You can't even make a case for why procreation is required for marriage. You flip flop more than a flounder while you flounder around posting circular logic on here.

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When that guy uses the word "procreation", my mind hears "BLAH". :)

Several court cases related to same-sex marriage have been mentioned on numerous threads but what we find is that court rulings that support the prohibitions against same-sex marriage predominately come from the early 1970's were documentation of actual discrimination and unequal treatment under the law didn't exist. There were no states with legal same-sex marriage in the 1970's so a case couldn't be presented where legally married same-sex couples could present actual evidence of unequal treatment under the law.

With the legalization of same-sex marriage in several states the actual evidence of discrimination under DOMA became clearly evident which is why DOMA has been declared unconstitutional. There have been no cases where DOMA or the mini-DOMA's of the States have been addressed since same-sex marriage was legalized by some States that resulted in a court decision supporting the prohibitions against same-sex marriage.

We can anticipate that there will be a Federal court case in the not to distant future where the denial of "marriage" status to a legally married same-sex couple in a "mini-DOMA" State will be challenged under the "full faith and credit" clause of the US Constitution and the mini-DOMA is going to be declared unconstitutional. When that happens the State that have mini-DOMA's are going to have to allow same-sex marriage because they cannot allow it for some married out of state while denying it to their own citizens.

DOMA laws, whether we're addressing the Federal DOMA law or the mini-DOMA's of the States, are unconstitutional and that is clearly being established in the Federal courts today. This issue doesn't even break along political lines of conservative v liberal as most conservatives today also acknowledge that prohibitions against same-sex marriage under DOMA or mini-DOMA laws are unconstitutional. Hopefully this will be addressed by the Supreme Court soon and we can expect a unanimous Supreme Court decision striking down these laws just as laws banning interracial marriage were struck down in Loving v Virginia.

America is unquestionably better off since the prohibitions against interracial marriages were declared unconstitutional in Loving v Virginia and America will be better off once the prohibitions against same-sex marriage are declared unconstitutional.

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Originally Posted by Osiris Faction

The Obama administration hasn't upheld DOMA. It has openly stated the justice department will not defend it against cases brought against it. .

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I said Obamas defense of DOMA. Specifically the Obama administration brief I quoted and cited in the other DOMA thread.
http://hunterforjustice.typepad.com/...ot-dismiss.pdf

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Originally Posted by Shiva_TD

There have been no cases where DOMA or the mini-DOMA's of the States have been addressed since same-sex marriage was legalized by some States that resulted in a court decision supporting the prohibitions against same-sex marriage.

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LOLOL!!! Delusional denial. Fascinating to watch your ideology actually alter your perception of reality.

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Originally Posted by Johnny-C

You aren't facing reality; of course, in YOUR mind the above describes where YOU think the discussion, arguments or protests should end. I had that many many hundreds of your posts ago.).

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The discussion is of the Supreme Court of the US establishment of marriage as a constitutional right. Its recorded in the cases. Not in my mind.

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Originally Posted by dixon76710

The discussion is of the Supreme Court of the US establishment of marriage as a constitutional right. Its recorded in the cases. Not in my mind.

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dixon, you apparently think/believe that homosexual-couples should not be allowed to marry legally; most Americans do not agree with you, and there are current court cases which reflect evidence upon the same.

DOMA is ultimately history.