As with race, you have no control over sexual preference either. In that sense, race and sexual orientation are analogous.

Most straight people on this forum are making the claim that they cannot force themselves to be attracted to the same sex. Do you believe they are they lying?

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There is no one gay gene. It is a combination of many genes, and possibly biological as well.


Are you saying you have the capability of being attracted to the same sex if you want to?

Have you tested this theory?

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Again, if you are born gay, then show me where the gay gene is. IF you can be born gay, why can't you be born a murderer, its not their fault according to you.

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"Your old road is Rapidly agin'.
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"There's a battle outside
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-Bob Dylan, greatest singer/songwriter ever to live.

No, i cannot make myself be gay, but gay people can. They make the choice to be gay, they are not born wanting to marry the same sex.

Have you tested your theory, OOOO wait, you can't. But of course in this day and age nobody has to take responsiblity for their actions. There is always some biological or mental problem and "its not their fault."

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"Your old road is Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'."

"There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

-Bob Dylan, greatest singer/songwriter ever to live.

I find the whole premise that because it is a choice, it can be restricted.

Exuse me, but I thought that was what "freedom" was, our ability to live our lives and make our own choices. Are we restricting what people can and can not do to only that which is biologically driven with necessity?

Being white is a genetic flaw as black people have better protection from the sun, shall we start treating white people for their genetic flaw and make them black?

The fact is this. The ability of people to be who they are and/or make choices on what they want to do with their lives is protected in our society, falling under the right to privacy. The government must have a compelling state interest to restrict anyone's personal freedom. Further, to use a legal concept, similarly situated people can not be denied any rights given to another group of people. Just as a straight couple gets right and protection from the government, similarly situated gay couples should as well.

the ONLY situational difference between a gay and straight couple is a straight couple has the potential to produce their own biological children. However, the ability and desire to reproduce has never been a restriction to straight couples getting married. Because of this, this situation is irrelivant unless you want to make it law that straight couples are required to produce children.

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That is a non-sequitur. The fact that I cant show you a specific gene does not necessarily mean I was not born gay.


You can be born a murderer. Thats why we have people locked up in asylums for life...because they are insane.

We distinguish between criminals and the insane. Criminals are punished because they have a choice. The insane are not, because they do not have a conscious choice.


If they are insane, no, it is not their fault. The law recognizes that. Do you disagree with the law?


Um...doesn't that undermine your whole argument? You claim it is a choice, but then you claim it is not a choice with you.

Explain this inconsistency.

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You assume it is a problem. I see no reason that it be considered a "problem" unless you want to call every difference in choice and/or genetics that does not produce the "best" result a problem. Even then, who decides what is "best"?

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who is advocating forced change? nobody is saying "lets make gays straight".
under that premise, incest, underage marriage, beastiality, etc. shouldnt be restricted either because thats a personal freedom.
everyone has the right to get married.. one man one woman. there is no discrimination.
they do.. everyone is protected by the government.
gays can get maried too...
[quote]

If there is no reason to change it, then the choice/disposition to be as such should be protected under the freedom to privacy
The difference is abuse. most of these actions are considered abusive which our society does regocnise as needing protection against.

There is no difference in the argument for why straight people are being allowed to marry and why gay people should. So unless you can establish a credable difference, the argument for straight marriage is just as likely a premise for incest, underage marriage, beastiality, etc. So tell me, why are straight people given legal rights in our society, and why are those protections not given to those of incest, underage marriage, beastiality, etc? And be sure your argument doesnt also establish that gay people should be allowed the rights as well since that would defeat the whole purpose of your argument.
Since you seem inclined to make me go down a slippery slope argument with incest, etc, let me make you go down your own:
"Everyone has the right to get married, two blacks, two whites. there is no discrimination"

Or how about this one, I'm sure you'll love this one

"Everyone has the right to get married.. two men, two women. There is no discrimination."

they do.. everyone is protected by the government
vegans can eat too (as the vegan looks at his options, eggs, lamb chops, steak or veil)

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[quote=JeffLV;495095]If there is no reason to change it, then the choice/disposition to be as such should be protected under the freedom to privacy[quote] it already is. you have th right to be gay. you have th right to change. those are your rights and you can chose whichever one you want.

what about incest of legal age? or polygamy? how about if its a 16 year old that concents to marry her uncle and the parents approve? what if there is no abuse and its true love? are you in favor of that?

gay people are being allowed to marry too.
im not aguing "straight marriage".. everyone is allowed to marry.. there is no such thing as straight marriage. its called marriage.
again..... everyone is given legal rights to marry. what youre asking me to explain is not the point that i made.
thats not my argument.. i was asking you to tell me the difference, which you still havent done.

how are we restricting those rights? are we locking up gays? are we forcing them to do things they dont want to do? are we telling them who to marry? no. those are all thier own decisions. as for blacks, i dont know that part of history, nor do i wish to debate it since i dont take issue with it either way.

that has nothing to do with marriage.. lets stay on subject...