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Old 04-18-2008, 01:58 AM
sunnyside sunnyside is offline
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Default The Greeks

Just a couple links from a quick google search in case you don't know what I'm talking about.
http://www.livius.org/ho-hz/homosexu...sexuality.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philoso...reek_pederasty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederas...ancient_Greece

Anyway the point is that a common claim is that people are either gay or not . Simple as that.

However it would seem that in ancience Greece (and Rome as well I believe) homosexuality was extremely common, far more so than current rates. And there as the pseudo institution of Pederasty.

So I guess the question is do you think people can be "turned" gay. Such as through homosexual encounters at a younger age or simply by being surrounded by it in the culture?

Do you think that matters?
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
Just a couple links from a quick google search in case you don't know what I'm talking about.
http://www.livius.org/ho-hz/homosexu...sexuality.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philoso...reek_pederasty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederas...ancient_Greece

Anyway the point is that a common claim is that people are either gay or not . Simple as that.

However it would seem that in ancience Greece (and Rome as well I believe) homosexuality was extremely common, far more so than current rates. And there as the pseudo institution of Pederasty.

So I guess the question is do you think people can be "turned" gay. Such as through homosexual encounters at a younger age or simply by being surrounded by it in the culture?

Do you think that matters?
In my opinion, sexuality is not a Dichotomy. Someone is not either gay or straight. I think it's something like food... there are some foods you love, some that are okay, some that you eat only if you have to, and some you would rather die than eat.

Likewise, I believe sexuality is naturally a spectrum. The way someone reacts to where they fall on the spectrum depends on what their culture is like. If someones culture is very accepting (like your greek examples), then you will find more people going "either way". If we are in a culture like ours where it is highly stigmatized, people become polarized. Those who are only "a little gay" in preference will be raised to shut off those feelings. Others are just too gay to resist and either become self hating or accept their homosexuality full heartedly.
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:48 PM
eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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Scientists Make Fruit Flies Gay, Then Straight Again
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316316,00.html
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:50 PM
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Scientists Make Fruit Flies Gay, Then Straight Again
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316316,00.html
What's your point? Scientists can make a fly black or white also.
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:57 PM
eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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If being gay can be turned on or off through biological means like flipping a switch, then it would seem to indicate that it is not a choice as much as biological happenstance. Of course, when the treatment becomes available, to make one straight/normal, then it will indeed be a choice, for the first time in the history of mankind.
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:59 PM
sunnyside sunnyside is offline
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What's your point? Scientists can make a fly black or white also.
His point is probably that maybe scientists could turn people gay and back again as well. Though with the flies it seems like what they were actually messing with was "target recognition" if you will. They might not have actually been gay, they just couldn't tell the difference because they rely on pheremones for that.
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Old 04-18-2008, 06:43 PM
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The Greeks



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Old 04-18-2008, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
If being gay can be turned on or off through biological means like flipping a switch, then it would seem to indicate that it is not a choice as much as biological happenstance. Of course, when the treatment becomes available, to make one straight/normal, then it will indeed be a choice, for the first time in the history of mankind.
This assumes it's a "problem" to begin with. The fact that some people are white with blonde hair and blue eyes is technically a problem because such people have a genetic flaw that gives them less protection against the sun.

But the fact is few white people want to have their genetics "corrected" because they, first of all, don't view this as a serious problem, and second of all, view their being white with blonde hair and blue eyes as part of their identity.

Designing the "normal", "perfect" human takes away part of what it means to be human... namely to be an individual.

Something only needs "treatment" if it is a problem, not if it is normal or not.

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Old 04-18-2008, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
His point is probably that maybe scientists could turn people gay and back again as well. Though with the flies it seems like what they were actually messing with was "target recognition" if you will. They might not have actually been gay, they just couldn't tell the difference because they rely on pheremones for that.
Indeed. The mating rituals in the fly world are probably a little less sophisticated than in mammals and humans.
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:09 PM
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The fact that some people are white with blonde hair and blue eyes is technically a problem.
I gotta say that that has NEVER been a problem for me!
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