Christianity - Page 3

stories4u · #21 (**permalink**) 11-09-2004, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinyar

And in the other debate, I didn't have as solid evidence as I do here.

In light of this admission, do you alter your stance based on scientific fact, or do you continue to hold it blindly regardless of whether you were right or wrong?

Vinyar1032 · #22 (**permalink**) 11-09-2004, 08:18 AM

""Nope. Still theory. It becomes where we THINK life began."'

It is theory that the oldest Sapien bones were found in Africa? Haha. Ok. I know what you mean though. And as it is now, Africa is where we have found the oldest sapien bones, so for now, it is where life began. Once we find older, that is where it changes.

And rethink what you say Stories. What you said was incorrect.

"Marriage is a legal arrangement"

It has become that. But Marriage, MARRIAGE, is a religous cerimony. A Union between 2 people is something that has happened. There is a diffrence.

And the theory of evolution I learned in my former biology class is this. Ape and Man come from a common ancestor. That ancestor split up, and some having microevolution, turned to human to adapt and evolve to fit our areas we lived in. But the ones that evolved to apes stayed in forests. That is why apes usually still have tails, because they use them in everyday life. Humans however never would need them, which explains why every so often a child can be born with a tail. And that is what my Biology teacher tought us so many years ago. And that one is what I now understand in. But the facts remain. Maybe the theory I learned is wrong. I dont know, but what I do know is the evolutionary theory is supported by many facts.

catzmeow · #23 (**permalink**) 11-09-2004, 08:38 AM

Quote:

And as it is now, Africa is where we have found the oldest sapien bones, so for now, it is where life began. Once we find older, that is where it changes.

Nope. Because Africa is where we've found the oldest bones so far, that is where we THEORIZE life began. That theory can change based upon new evidence. WE may discover even older bones elsewhere tomorrow.

A fact does not change. A theory is open to change as new evidence is discovered. Thus, a theory is NOT a fact.

Catz

stories4u · #24 (**permalink**) 11-09-2004, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinyar

And rethink what you say Stories. What you said was incorrect.

"Marriage is a legal arrangement"

It has become that. But Marriage, MARRIAGE, is a religous cerimony. A Union between 2 people is something that has happened. There is a diffrence.

Mirriam Webster - the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law

Cambridge International - a legally accepted relationship between a woman and a man in which they live as husband and wife, or the official ceremony which results in this

American Heritage - The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife

Dictionary.com - The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife.

Columbia - socially sanctioned union that reproduces the family.

I could go on but to continue would simply be redundant.

As I stated earlier marriage, in one form or another, has existed since we walked out of the jungle..and perhaps even before that. It has always been an arrangement between a man and a woman...or women... The blessing of a religious figure really didn't become popular until the Roman Catholic church had become a major player in the social construct.

If you accept evolution as "fact" then marriage was going on for a very long time before Christianity came into being...and even Judiasm for that matter.

Face it, marriage is a social construct that was developed in order to create the long term relationship that is necessary for human child rearing....if there were no need to assure such a relationship thereby giving continuity to the generations, then there would be no need for marriage...The only reason we encouraged people to stay together was to see to the raising of children...and the only way to cement the relationship was to give it a legal standing...even in the most primitive culture...marriage has a legal standing and is supported by the community.

In most cultures, if the female failed to produce young, the relationship could be terminated quite easily...

Vinyar1032 · #25 (**permalink**) 11-10-2004, 06:00 AM

"Because Africa is where we've found the oldest bones so far, that is where we THEORIZE life began. That theory can change based upon new evidence"

Yes, but so far, Africa is the oldest we have found. So untill new evidence is found of somewhere else, that is where it is.

And yet again. A Union between man woman, man man, woman woman has been around forever, even back before we evolved to humans.

But Marriage, non legal, religous, is religon. A Union, not called marriage, has always been around. But what you need to realize is that marriage itself was support to be religous, but recently it has become a more legal thing then religous. But it doesnt change the fact that a marriage is religous. A union of a sort, has been around forever. It is in the wording.

Marriage by definition is a religous cerimony. Now days, Marriage is becomming more legal. But the fact remains that Marriage is religous, and a union has been around forever. It is all in the wording of Marriage and Union. For example, a priest or some type of clergy performs a wedding, marriage. But a Union is performed by a Judge. You can be married and not make it legal. But a union is always non religous, and legal thing.

catzmeow · #26 (**permalink**) 11-10-2004, 06:10 AM

Quote:

that is where it is.

No. You cannot prove, conclusively, that this is so, beyond a reasonable doubt. Thus, this is where you THEORIZE it is. Your theory is probably sound, but do you get the difference between fact and theory yet?

Catz

stories4u · #27 (**permalink**) 11-10-2004, 07:53 AM

Vinyar..according to anthropologists, marriage has always been part of human culture..and there is some evidence to suggest that the dead end homonids (like neanderthal) had a marriage like arangement as well.

Now, if you accept evolution, then you must accept the fossil record that places the earliest humans at about 2.3 million years ago...That means that marriage has been happening for at least that long...the religious aspect was only placed on it 4,000 years ago at the earliest...

So we have the legal union of man and woman happening for 2.3 million years and religious conotations being placed on it by "SOME" cultures for maybe the past 4,000 years...YET, you say that for the longest time marriage has been religious and recently has become more legal...Vinyar my friend, you have it bass ackwards...For 2.3 million years it has been a legal union, and for maybe 4,000 years some religious conotation has been placed on it by "SOME" cultures...and then you want to quibble over the word.

I am quite sure that the first humans didn't call it marriage..they didn't have the word..but what they engaged in was indeed marriage by any definition that I can find in any number of dictionaries. A rose by any other name.....

Vinyar1032 · #28 (**permalink**) 11-10-2004, 08:19 AM

"No. You cannot prove, conclusively, that this is so, beyond a reasonable doubt. Thus, this is where you THEORIZE it is. Your theory is probably sound, but do you get the difference between fact and theory yet?"

The point is I call it fact till it is proven wrong. So stop attacking what I call it. I say it is fact till proven the facts prove it somewhere else. It is true that the majority of things in Science are only theories, but a theory supported by fact is fact in many peoples eyes. But it is that to me. Untill it is proven to be somewhere else. There it is.

"marriage like arangement as well."

Marriage LIKE. A union is marriage like. That fact is, a Union can be exactly the same as a marriage, but the only diffrence is a Union is a legal binding done by a judge. When a marriage is performed by a priest, it is only religous. You can be married and not be legally married. But a Union is a cerimony performed by a Judge. A Union is a marriage LIKE cerimony, but it is the legal part. If you are not religous, all you need to do is get a legal union. Marriage is the religous part.