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Old 06-17-2006, 06:12 AM
KingM
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Default A Eugenics Plan for Africa

(Advance note: I understand this is a controversial subject, but this is an attempt to deal with an almost intractable problem and requires some true risk taking.)

While there are many reasons for African poverty, including corruption, tribalism, and a heavy burden of tropical disease and parasites, one of the main reasons is the low average IQ of Sub-Saharan Africans. The per capita GNP of societies (and, to a large extent, individuals) is tied to the average IQ of its citizens. On the surface, this appears to be an intractable problem, but with an effective, voluntary eugenics program, this problem could be overcome within two generations, while corruption, tribalism, and the disease/parasite issues defy easy solutions.

There is almost no chance of this plan being implemented because it will be seen as patronizing, racist, and tainted by Nazi excesses and other failed eugenics programs of the Twentieth Century. It is also a long-term plan, and not as exciting for Western donors who would rather dig wells, build roads and dam rivers.

Here is the general outline of the plan. Note that this plan would work to raise the IQ of any human population, including high IQ races such as the Japanese (average IQ 105) or Ashkenazi Jews (average IQ 110).

Read the rest: http://theopinionator.com/Politics/eugenicsafrica1.html
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Old 06-17-2006, 08:26 AM
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Not only is it immoral, but this eugenics idea is based on an assumption that at the very least is not proven and even flies in the face of much of what contemporary social science shows.
IQ is at least as much nurture as nature... for the most functional parts of IQ, likely more.
Development of economy, stable government, and especially education will fix both low IQ and population growth (more modern societies encourage less population growth).
There is a brain drain probblem... but it's not in the numbers stuck in the countries. It's those that are educated leaving for other countries with more opportunity.
Eugenics is no more a valid solution in Africa now than it ever was anywhere.
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:33 AM
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Default re: nature versus nurture

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
IQ is at least as much nurture as nature... for the most functional parts of IQ, likely more.
I would love to believe you, but the facts do not support that assertion.


The role of genes and environment (nature vs. nurture) in determining IQ is reviewed in Plomin et al. (2001, 2003). The degree to which genetic variation contributes to observed variation in a trait is measured by a statistic called heritability. Heritability scores range from 0 to 1, and can be interpreted as the percentage of variation (e.g. in IQ) that is due to variation in genes. Twins studies and adoption studies are commonly used to determine the heritability of a trait. Until recently heritability was mostly studied in children. These studies yield an estimate of heritability of 0.5; that is, half of the variation in IQ among the children studied was due to variation in their genes. The remaining half was thus due to environmental variation and measurement error. A heritability of 0.5 implies that IQ is "substantially" heritable. Studies with adults show that they have a higher heritability of IQ than children do and that heritability could be as high as 0.8. The American Psychological Association's 1995 task force on "Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns" concluded that within the White population the heritability of IQ is "around .75" (p. 85).[5]


source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ

There is a small nurture component, but it is not even of secondary important. More important is nutrition and disease load, both of which can and should be directly addressed in Africa.

None of this says anything about the IQ of individuals, however, and there are incredibly bright people in Africa. The key is to leverage these individuals to create a more intelligent future population. The IQ of a population is not fixed through generations; witness the well-documented superior mental abilities of Ashkenazi Jews versus their Middle Eastern cousins. A recent study has even pinpointed the origin of this difference in intellect.

http://www.economist.com/science/dis...ory_id=4032638

Why couldn't the same happen in Africa?

(I agree with your assertion about brain drain in Africa. Combined with the fact that the more intelligent, middle and upper class people having a lower fertility rate, this adds to the current dysgenic effect in the continent.)
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Old 06-17-2006, 11:50 AM
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It's unfortunate that scholarly articles are trapped in college sites or pay sites. I used my school library page so the link won't work. But here's a citation and abstract:

Quote:
Title: Socioeconomic status modifies heritability of IQ in young children
Author(s): Turkheimer, Eric U Virginia, Charlottesville, VA, US; Haley, Andreana U Virginia, Charlottesville, VA, US; Waldron, Mary U Virginia, Charlottesville, VA, US; D'Onofrio, Brian U Virginia, Charlottesville, VA, US; Gottesman, Irving I. U Virginia, Charlottesville, VA, US E-mail: ent3c@virginia.edu
Source: Psychological Science Vol 14(6) (Nov 2003): 623-628
Additional Info: United Kingdom : Blackwell Publishing
Abstract: journal abstract: Scores on the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children were analyzed in a sample of 7-year-old twins from the National Collaborative Perinatal Project. A substantial proportion of the twins were raised in families living near or below the poverty level. Biometric analyses were conducted using models allowing for components attributable to the additive effects of genotype, shared environment, and nonshared environment to interact with socioeconomic status (SES) measured as a continuous variable. Results demonstrate that the proportions of IQ variance attributable to genes and environment vary nonlinearly with SES. The models suggest that in impoverished families, 60% of the variance in IQ is accounted for by the shared environment, and the contribution of genes is close to zero; in affluent families, the result is almost exactly the reverse. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2006 APA, all rights reserved)
At the very least there is still much to debate before we go ahead with some sickening eugenics plan.
Can you explain exactly how "voluntary eugenics" is even possible?
I'll keep looking over the course of the next week or so for more info.

Note that Africa is mostly impovered and take a look at those numbers.
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Old 06-17-2006, 01:09 PM
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Default sickening?

Of course it should be looked at carefully, but what do you mean by sickening? It would be voluntary (read the original article!) and would not be designed to reduce the population of Africa. Indeed, millions would be given incentives to bear children. The end result would be to improve the intellectual capital of the continent.

As an aside, the number one thing that the West could do to improve Africa and would be virtually free would be to provide iodized salt. Several millions in West Africa suffer diet-induced cretinism because the soils of certain areas leads to severe iodine deficiency.

The problem with this is that results would take decades to manifest as an entire generation of children would need to grow up with adequate iodine to see a difference. We're addicted to quick fixes and likely will remain as we lose generation after generation.
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Old 06-17-2006, 01:30 PM
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I must be too American. Not big on microsocial engineering. Market solutions appear better to me. Why would high IQ individuals not leave subsaharan Africa once their obligations are done? And who would pay these billions per year... for no return on the investment?
What Africa needs is incentives for investment. Incentives to keep the smart people there and draw smart people from other countries as well as multinational corporations and venture capitalists. The money will create an incentive for better education and the means for better health conditions. The population drawn in will provide genes to add to the mix.
The smart among the poor will move up without a need for micromanagement. The not-so-smart will stay in menial jobs and still have an improved quality of life. And the money put into it will have return. Everyone will be better off.
Eugenics is still based on theories that are, though you have such certainty, still being debated. Capitalism has proven results. The challenge is figuring out howw to build a strong capital base in Africa, how to incite development.
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Old 06-19-2006, 09:12 PM
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Default This is sick

This sounds like somthing the nazis or soviets tryed to do, This is a horrible idea.
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Old 06-20-2006, 03:05 AM
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Default no...

That's a gut-level reaction without thinking. The Nazis and Soviets murdered people and targeted certain religions and ethnicities for extinction. This would be religion/ethnicity neutral, be completely voluntary, and would offer financial assistance in the form of billions of dollars. You can compare it to the Nazis and Soviets if you'd like but that is not based on logic.
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Old 06-20-2006, 05:06 AM
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As visceral as it was, Juggalo's response was not unwarranted.
The problem with eugenics, regardless of method, is that it requires us to fully accept the theories that were used to justify genocide all over the world.
There is a moral crisis just in accepting that. And there is a certain amount of "playing God" involved. We must be 100% right for such a plan to work. For that to be true, we would have to accept that genes are near 100% of the reasoning behind success. This is not proven. For every study saying it is, another exists to debunk it. Like everything, success is a mixture of variables. And looking at Africa, if we are to notice one single most terrible attribute- it is the failure of their states to hold power.
The corruption in Africa does not occur because of low IQ. It is a culture. Is it not smart to take advantage of corruption when possible? Perhaps not in the long run. But even smart people tend to be short-sighted.
Even with high IQ, people can do little without the right resources and capital. The best course of action for a smart African would be... to leave Africa.
What we need is incentive. A reason for smart people to stay in Africa. A reason for more smart people to go to Africa. Spend the billions you're talking about on capital. Build industry. Create jobs. Create incentive.
Yould be surprised how people will defy your expectations when they have incentive and resources to do so.
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Old 06-20-2006, 01:06 PM
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Default Some of what you say makes sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
As visceral as it was, Juggalo's response was not unwarranted.
The problem with eugenics, regardless of method, is that it requires us to fully accept the theories that were used to justify genocide all over the world.
There is a moral crisis just in accepting that. And there is a certain amount of "playing God" involved. We must be 100% right for such a plan to work. For that to be true, we would have to accept that genes are near 100% of the reasoning behind success. This is not proven. For every study saying it is, another exists to debunk it. Like everything, success is a mixture of variables. And looking at Africa, if we are to notice one single most terrible attribute- it is the failure of their states to hold power.
The corruption in Africa does not occur because of low IQ. It is a culture. Is it not smart to take advantage of corruption when possible? Perhaps not in the long run. But even smart people tend to be short-sighted.
Even with high IQ, people can do little without the right resources and capital. The best course of action for a smart African would be... to leave Africa.
What we need is incentive. A reason for smart people to stay in Africa. A reason for more smart people to go to Africa. Spend the billions you're talking about on capital. Build industry. Create jobs. Create incentive.
Yould be surprised how people will defy your expectations when they have incentive and resources to do so.
I agree that there are reasons beyond IQ. Africa is beset with tribalism and suffers from high disease and parasite loads and labors under corrupt systems of government. By why is every single sub-Saharan African nation impoverished? Why is Haiti the poorest non-African nation in the world? Why are blacks the underclass in the United States, England, Canada, Brazil, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Colombia, France, Morocco, Sudan, and every single other country in which they are present? Every one. Is every single society racist against black Africans?

Maybe they are, but they have also been racist against the Chinese and the Jews and these two populations have become market dominant minorities in almost every country in which they are found.

Listen, I know the program outlined above is not perfect and it will never happen for the reasons you outline; we are hesitant to make these kinds of decisions. But I can tell you, African poverty will not be solved by traditional aid programs.

I have been to Africa, incidentally, and made some wonderful friendships. It is a beautiful place and yes, there are tremendous resources both human and natural in these nations. Africans have enriched global culture tremendously, and are world-beaters in music, athletics, and dance. There are also plenty of intelligent people in Africa just as there are tens of millions of intellectually challenged people in every corner of the globe. I just had a conversation yesterday with a Senegalese man who is fluent in French, English, Senegalese, and German; takes some mental wattage to mark that achievement. Sadly for Senegal, he has emigrated to the West.
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