Thread: Concealed Carry restrictions

Originally Posted by DaveInFL

Nope.

In the US, there are about 684,000 police/sheriff/etc. and about 6-8,000,000 people with concealed carry permits.

In Florida, there are 37,000 police/sheriff compared to over 1,000,000 concealed carry holders.

In Florida, the Florida Dept of Law Enforcement tracks crime by CCW holders. Surprise, CCW holders are the most law abiding group in the state.

Not quite a million in Florida--last count was 879,000 or so. Now, if you count other groups like Private investigators, you do get a little more than a million.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/sta...es_By_Type.pdf

Originally Posted by Wolverine

Again, you not considering exposure.

Your argument is irrelevant.

There are many times more CC carriers than police yet they still misuse their weapons less often than do the police. Are you trying to say the police have more opportunities to misuse their weapon? That might be right but I have not read any studies that rely on this to explain why the police screw up with their weapons so often.

Originally Posted by JIMV

There are many times more CC carriers than police yet they still misuse their weapons less often than do the police. Are you trying to say the police have more opportunities to misuse their weapon? That might be right but I have not read any studies that rely on this to explain why the police screw up with their weapons so often.

Without pointing to a cause, your point is irrelevant.

Police officers carry their weapons all day. Police officers are more likely to draw their weapons. They are exposed to the possession and use of their weapons more than CCW holders. How often do CCW holders carry? How often do CCW holders draw their weapons?

Your argument is completely irrelevant. You are comparing CCW holders to police officers, I do not care about police officers. I care about incompetent shooters carrying loaded weapons in public, your only rebuttal is how through mysterious means training means nothing.

A red herring.

Originally Posted by Wolverine

Without pointing to a cause, your point is irrelevant.

Police officers carry their weapons all day. Police officers are more likely to draw their weapons. They are exposed to the possession and use of their weapons more than CCW holders. How often do CCW holders carry? How often do CCW holders draw their weapons?

Your argument is completely irrelevant. You are comparing CCW holders to police officers, I do not care about police officers. I care about incompetent shooters carrying loaded weapons in public, your only rebuttal is how through mysterious means training means nothing.

A red herring.

Ayuh,... I can't speak for All ccw holders, but this 1 carries All day, Everyday....
And,...
I dare say the majority of CCW holders, NEVER draw their gun....

I've been carrying since the early 80s, 'n only had to point my gun at 1 fellow, who fortunately understood the lesson I'd just taught him...
His attack on me ended, 'n I went on my way, 'n he was also able to walk away...

..... that only serves to strengthen my argument.

Originally Posted by Wolverine

Police officers carry their weapons all day. Police officers are more likely to draw their weapons. They are exposed to the possession and use of their weapons more than CCW holders.

True, which is why with all their "mandated" training they should be the most competent, but sadly they are not.

Originally Posted by Wolverine

How often do CCW holders carry? How often do CCW holders draw their weapons?

How often do CCW carriers shoot innocent by standards?

Originally Posted by Wolverine

Your argument is completely irrelevant.

Again, so is yours.

Originally Posted by Wolverine

I do not care about police officers. I care about incompetent shooters carrying loaded weapons in public

.
Of course you don't, they (police) are trained under a government mandate and still prove to be incompetent with their firearm, it is easier for you to reject this reality and focus on a fairy tale of CCW carrier's being a threat to the populous.

Just because he can't shoot accurately doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to conceal carry. <3 my rights.

Originally Posted by AlaskanYoung

Just because he can't shoot accurately doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to conceal carry. <3 my rights.

Of course, because his right to carry a weapon trumps the safety of everyone around him.

Education and training is cheap, there is no excuse.

Originally Posted by Barry Badrinath

True, which is why with all their "mandated" training they should be the most competent, but sadly they are not.

Of course you don't, they (police) are trained under a government mandate and still prove to be incompetent with their firearm, it is easier for you to reject this reality and focus on a fairy tale of CCW carrier's being a threat to the populous.

I don't care about police officers. They carry their firearms more often, they draw their firearms more often, and they fire their weapons more often in instances that occur more frequently than what a CCW holder will experience. Your argument is irrelevant.

So either training is beneficial (my position), or maybe we can argue about how useless training is and how it is completely unnecessary for decent pistolmanship? Your position contradicts every class I have attended and every tactical pistol book I have reviewed.

How often do CCW carriers shoot innocent by standards?

Irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Wolverine

My god this thread is the very reason why I am no longer associate myself with conservatives.

I'm late to this party but I'll chime in.

I'm definitely a conservative and a CWP carrier. I happen to agree with the atheist OP.

Although I consider myself a pretty damm good marksman and was fortunate enough to have a very, very good instructor when I first applied, I agree that many classes are somewhat of a joke.

For instance, the gun show at the fairgrounds always offers courses and I sat nearby and watched once or twice. About the only thing taught was where you can't carry. Each student then went out to a semi trailer and fired two shots with a .22, got their fingerprints and went home to await their permit.

My good friend recently took a different course from a local individual ex-cop who teaches. Not only did he not get to focus on aiming or using his gun, the teacher taught him some really dumb things like "any delivery person is allowed to carry in to a government building", he also taught him the untrue "3 moves rule" when carrying in a vehicle. My friend fired his weapon twice and was carrying it two weeks later. (as an aside, this same friend accidentally shot his mattress while showing his pistol to his brother)

I'm all for citizens being able to arm themselves but I would feel better knowing they were responsible and knew how to handle their weapons.

I'm confident that I could clearly assess a threatening situation before firing my weapon and I'm confident I can hit my mark if I did have to fire. I'm not so confident about my friend or most of the people who took the gun show classes.