Thread: Gun Related Deaths In America 2012 #2

Originally Posted by Shiva_TD

This makes two unrelated statements.

The belief that guns are not required in public is to deny that there is a threat in public places. This is obviously false and numerous cases of people being murdered while in public where they might have been able to defend themselves can be presented. Should we post all of the violent killings that could have been prevented if the victim was armed?

Obviously randomly shooting people is wrong but that has nothing to do with a person that is lawful and carrying a firearm legally solely for the purpose of self-defense.

Should we deny a person the ability to defend themself? How does a 98 lb woman defend herself in a dark public parking lot against a 220 lb man that wants to rape and murder her? When that is explained to me then perhaps there's an argument against a law-abiding person carrying firearms in a public place but when we know that tasers and pepper-spray don't work then how can that woman defend herself in such a situation?

It is ironic that some who would condemn the rape and murder of a woman would then want to take away the one effective means that she would have to defend herself against rape and murder. Give her a handgun and train her in how and when to use it and that rape and murder will not occur.

I believe everyone deserves the right to defend themselves, but no one needs to carry a gun.
And there is something obviously wrong with your country if you need a gun anyway. I go out in the public all the time. No one carries a gun and I haven't been attacked annd I haven't seen anyone else be attacked.
If Americans are so scared of violence and need guns to protect themselves, what does that say about the state of your country?

Originally Posted by Makedde

I believe everyone deserves the right to defend themselves, but no one needs to carry a gun.
And there is something obviously wrong with your country if you need a gun anyway. I go out in the public all the time. No one carries a gun and I haven't been attacked annd I haven't seen anyone else be attacked.
If Americans are so scared of violence and need guns to protect themselves, what does that say about the state of your country?

The state of my country is just fine,thank you,and having a gun isn't about need,it's a right,as the police are only there after the fact


And we're no more scared of violence than we are scared of wrecks when we put our seat belts on...

Originally Posted by Makedde

I believe everyone deserves the right to defend themselves, but no one needs to carry a gun.
And there is something obviously wrong with your country if you need a gun anyway. I go out in the public all the time. No one carries a gun and I haven't been attacked annd I haven't seen anyone else be attacked.
If Americans are so scared of violence and need guns to protect themselves, what does that say about the state of your country?

People with guns prevent 2.5 million crimes a year in America. The reason we are founded on the belief of having weapons is for several reasons. 1: Our country grew on the 'frontier'. Back in the day guns were very important for personal protection. We were also founded on the idea that government should be small and should fear the anger of the people. I hold the second amendment very dear.

Originally Posted by Makedde

I believe everyone deserves the right to defend themselves, but no one needs to carry a gun.
And there is something obviously wrong with your country if you need a gun anyway. I go out in the public all the time. No one carries a gun and I haven't been attacked annd I haven't seen anyone else be attacked.
If Americans are so scared of violence and need guns to protect themselves, what does that say about the state of your country?

The strong prey on the weak it's a fact of life. If your country is safer than ours lucky you. The USA's violent crime rate and homicides are at lower levels both in per person and overall numbers than 40 years ago with a steady drop for the last 16 years. Now while average citizens in your country are not deemed fit to use firearms to protect themselves. I'm pretty sure you have a military that does use firearms an even more dangerous weapons to protect
you. Not to mention depending on mine to protect you from China. Most
Americans feel safe as I said we are safer than we used to be an with more
guns as opposed to less. As far as what it says about our country. It says we are not a isolated island in the middle of a ocean. Our drug problem is far
worse than most other countries as well. Those are just facts of life for Americans.

Now back on topic I let you pull me off but I play by the rules. So this one is from one of the safer states in my barbaric republic.

Story posted Febuary 21, 2012
Hermon, Maine, USA

A 24yr old man said he was in a fight for his life. When he shot two Bangor (a city in Maine not a lewd act) men who forced their way in his apartment.

The shooting took place about 9:00am thursday, when a woman and two men he did not know burst in his apartment. One man came at him with a knife and cut him across the abdomen. The other hit him over the head with a electric guitar, before both intruders kicked him and his roomate while they were on the floor. When he broke free he grabbed the .22 caliper(very small) handgun from his bedroom. He shot one of the intruders 19yr old Philip Mclntre in the leg. He shot the other man 30yr old Robert Dellairo in the hip when Dellairo lunged at him. Dellairo died later of his injuries.
http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/M...shooting-.html

Originally Posted by Makedde

I believe everyone deserves the right to defend themselves, but no one needs to carry a gun.
And there is something obviously wrong with your country if you need a gun anyway. I go out in the public all the time. No one carries a gun and I haven't been attacked annd I haven't seen anyone else be attacked.
If Americans are so scared of violence and need guns to protect themselves, what does that say about the state of your country?

The question has not been answered. How does a 98 lb woman defend herself from a 220 lb man that is intent upon raping and murdering her? He doesn't need any weapons and, as noted, pepper-spray and even tasers have been proven to be ineffective against a determined attacker.

The Colt Firearms Company coined the advertising phrase, ""God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal." It was true in the 19th Century and remains true today.

Always remember one simple fact. A law-abiding citizen carrying a firearm does not present a threat to anyone except to those that would violate the law.

Originally Posted by Makedde

They are good ones, but just remember all deaths must have occured between January 1, 2012, and December 31, 2012.

Don't you mean in 2011? Cause it's only march 2012. If you mean 2011 there were 8,775 murders by means of a firearm.

You said that you have never seen or you yourself have nver been attacked out in public. So that must mean that there is no crime down under just because you've never seen it or experienced it right? So Australia must be the only place on the planet where there is no violent crime.

Americans don't see it as a right to shoot someone in the back while they are running away, that's a crime in any state and it's frankly absurd and insulting for you to say otherwise, it just illustrates how ignorant you are about the U.S.

I carry concealed some of the time and it's not because I'm so worried about being attacked because my country is so unsafe. I want to be prepared to defend myself or othrs in case some jackass decides to be a jackass. Where ever there are people, there's the possibility of crime, just the fact of reality.

Originally Posted by Shiva_TD

The question has not been answered. How does a 98 lb woman defend herself from a 220 lb man that is intent upon raping and murdering her? He doesn't need any weapons and, as noted, pepper-spray and even tasers have been proven to be ineffective against a determined attacker.

The Colt Firearms Company coined the advertising phrase, ""God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal." It was true in the 19th Century and remains true today.

Always remember one simple fact. A law-abiding citizen carrying a firearm does not present a threat to anyone except to those that would violate the law.

I don't expect a woman to defend herself, just as I can't expect to defend myself against an attack because it is illegal here to carry a knife.
But a knife is better than a gun. And even if she had a gun, how can you say that she would escape? You can't.

Originally Posted by Dingo44

Don't you mean in 2011? Cause it's only march 2012. If you mean 2011 there were 8,775 murders by means of a firearm.

From the start of this year to the end is what we are counting...

8775 gun murders last year? Really? And Australia had...how many?

From 1996 to 2003, the total number of gun deaths each year fell from 521 to 289

The risk of dying by gunshot has halved since Australia destroyed 700,000 privately owned firearms, according to a new study published today in the international research journal, Injury Prevention.

Hmm, but banning guns won't stop the killings!!! Umm, yes it will. Look at us, less than half the chance of being killed by a gun since 1996.

http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/news/n...Dec/061214.php

Originally Posted by Makedde

I don't expect a woman to defend herself, just as I can't expect to defend myself against an attack because it is illegal here to carry a knife.
But a knife is better than a gun. And even if she had a gun, how can you say that she would escape? You can't.

I can uncategorically state that a gun is a better defensive weapon than a knife and that a well trained individual with either is better able to defend themself than they are with their bare hands. The ability to defend themself is all that is assured by being armed when we address the 98 lb woman defending herself against a 220 lb man intent on raping and murdering her. It cannot be guarenteed nor does it need to be. Remember, that 98 lb woman, a law abiding person, does not present any threat to society. None whatsoever.

The fact in the United States is that where individuals are allowed to carry concealed weapons (CCW permits) that violent crime is less.

The total Violent Crime Rate is 26% higher in the restrictive states (798.3 per 100,000 pop.) than in the less restrictive states (631.6 per 100,000).

Individuals with CCW permits are far less likely to commit a gun related crime.

Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm. Americans use firearms for self-defense more than 2.1 million times annually.

Most violent crimes are committed by a very small percentage of the population and many of those are repeat offenders that are prohibited from owning firearms under the law.

By contrast, there are about 579,000 violent crimes committed annually with firearms of all types. Seventy percent of violent crimes are committed by 7% of criminals, including repeat offenders, many of whom the courts place on probation after conviction, and felons that are paroled before serving their full time behind bars.

Finally, most firearm usage for self-defense does not result in a fatal shooting but it does reduce crime dramatically.

99.9% of self-defense firearms uses do not result in fatal shootings of criminals, an important factor ignored in certain "studies" that are used to claim that guns are more often misused than used for self-protection. Of incarcerated felons surveyed by the Department of Justice, 34% have been driven away, wounded, or captured by armed citizens; 40% have decided against committing crimes for fear their would-be victims were armed.

http://www.carryconcealed.net/carryi...led-statistics

Originally Posted by Makedde

8775 gun murders last year? Really? And Australia had...how many?

Hmm, but banning guns won't stop the killings!!! Umm, yes it will. Look at us, less than half the chance of being killed by a gun since 1996.

http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/news/n...Dec/061214.php

Facts:

Over the past 18 years (1 July 1989 to 30 June 2007), the rate* of homicide incidents decreased from 1.9 in 1990-91 and 1992-93 to the second-lowest recorded rate, of 1.3, in 2006-07. *rate per 100,000 population.

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.aspx

That's about a 30% drop in the murder rate in Australia based upon murder and population statistics.

At the sme time in the United States the number of murders dropped by over 22% in actual numbers which also equates to about a 30% decline when the increase in US population is accounted for. Since then the number of murders have continued to decline in the US with the decrease reflecting over 31% without any considerations related to the population increase in the United States in 2010.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

The argument that murder is decreasing in Australia because of gun control laws is false but instead it's based upon other factors just like it is in the United States. Violent crimes, including murder, are going down in both countries and are going down at roughly the same rates.

Originally Posted by Makedde

But a knife is better than a gun. And even if she had a gun, how can you say that she would escape? You can't.

How can you say that she wouldn't escape? You can't.



See how that works? A knife is better than nothing, and a gun is better than a knife when it comes to personal defense. I don't envy Australia or the UK for stripping their populace of the means and rights to defend themselves and their property from intrusion.


And for the sake of the topic.

http://www.live5news.com/story/16569...house-shooting

Here's a good one. A State police officer, leaves a loaded gun in a car with his 7 year old daughter and her brother inside. Naturally, they are curious. The 7 year old girl is now dead because her brother shot her. Apparently we are meant to feel sorry for the incompentent fool who left his loaded gun in a car with two young kids:

THE seven-year-old daughter of a Washington state police officer died yesterday after being shot by her brother, with a gun the children found in their father's van.

The pair were alone in the vehicle in Stanwood, Washington, 87km north of Seattle, when the incident happened on Saturday afternoon, KCPQ-TV reported.

The boy accidentally shot the girl as the siblings were handling the loaded firearm, KOMO-TV reported. Their parents were nearby when the shooting occurred.

The girl was rushed to a local hospital before being transferred to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, where she died early this morning.

The gun was registered to the Marysville police officer, but it was unknown if it was his duty weapon or a personal firearm.

"At this time we are all extremely concerned for the well being of one of our department family members," said Marysville Police Chief Rick Smith, according to KCPQ-TV. "Our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family."

The age of the boy was not released.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/bre...-1226297174732

Who is going to lay charges against the officer for being such a tool, leaving a loaded gun alone with two little kids? I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for the child who died. The officer put the gun in those kids hands, he is responsible for the death of the girl, and should be charged accordingly.