Thread: Does Gun Control Reduce Crime?

Originally Posted by Reiver

This is just a very bland reference to spurious relationship. We do, however, have evidence that Brazilian gun control has had positive effects. See de Souza et al (2007, Reductions in Firearm-Related Mortality and Hospitalisations in Brazil after Gun Control, Health Affairs, Vol. 26, pp. 575-584). Here's the abstract:

This paper provides evidence suggesting that gun control measures have been effective in reducing the toll of violence on population health in Brazil. In 2004, for the first time in more than a decade, firearm-related mortality declined 8 percent from the previous year. Firearm-related hospitalizations also reversed a historical trend that year by decreasing 4.6 percent from 2003 levels. These changes corresponded with anti-gun legislation passed in late 2003 and disarmament campaigns undertaken throughout the country since mid-2004. The estimated impact of these measures, if they prove causal, could be as much as 5,563 firearm-related deaths averted in 2004 alone.

There are too many variables, usually to say, "yes, thier gun control laws are a direct result of crime going up or down." Most firearm homocides are from the usual suspects---gangs with illegal guns. The sorry judicial system there is more of a factor than the guns.

With all the wonderful gun registration and other restrictive type laws in place, there should be LESS violent homocides in Brazil, Mexico and South Africa than the US. This is the main point. Crime is very low in areas "swimming with guns" such as Liechtenstien, Switzerland and Wyoming. Hell-holes like the Sudan, the Ivory Coast and Liberia have just as many guns but have dead bodies laying in the streets.

If anything is "spurrious" it is data that can not and will not predict crime based on gun control laws worldwide.

Originally Posted by Greataxe

There are too many variables, usually to say, "yes, thier gun control laws are a direct result of crime going up or down."

Not if an appropriate econometric methodology is adopted.

The problem for you is that, as you haven't perused the evidence, you accidentally mentioned a country where a gun control study existed. Oops!

Originally Posted by Wayne

I'm glad you asked:







The intentional homicide rate shows North America is lower than Eastern Europe, and also lower than the world average, and FAR lower than MANY other regions in the world.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




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Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Criminals generally want easy targets. Having a gun makes you a harder target. When you're in a population which carries, you are safer even if you don't carry a gun yourself, because a criminal has no way of knowing if you're carrying concealed or not and doesn't want to risk finding out the hard way.

What nonsense!

It is logical to believe, the more guns, the more idiots will use them to cause violence and the less guns = less idiots having access to them.

And this fantasy to believe some gun owners are rambo,. It goes against human nature. Ie self surviva, to run away first and not into danger.

And since the edit function does not work, i ask this in another post.

Why in the hell are you Wayne using 'wiki' as a source for international perspectives.

It is highly complicated to gather information from various goverments to compare. Unless you want the cheap way out to paste nonsense on a forum to prove a irrelevant point.

Originally Posted by Wayne

I'm glad you asked:

The intentional homicide rate shows North America is lower than Eastern Europe, and also lower than the world average, and FAR lower than MANY other regions in the world.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

wow the US has lower homicide rates than the worst sh*tholes of the world there's something to be proud of...but it also has the highest homicide rate in the 1st world by a wide margin...


Gun Deaths - International Comparisons

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (199 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

Originally Posted by Foghlai

From data suggesting gun prevalence is correlated with crime rates a common argument is made that gun control would reduce crime rates. Evidence suggests that such effects are not significant (Moorhouse and Brent Wanner 2006, Does gun control reduce crime or does crime increase gun control? Vol. 26 Nbr. 1) (http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj26n1/cj26n1-6.pdf)

Why aren't reduction effects of gun control on crime rates supported?

it's obvious that if you could keep guns out of the hands of criminals by an effective control method gun crime would go down...keeping guns out of the hands of everyone but the police and military and you could reduce this to near zero domestic deaths...

Originally Posted by wyly

it's obvious that if you could keep guns out of the hands of criminals by an effective control method gun crime would go down...keeping guns out of the hands of everyone but the police and military and you could reduce this to near zero domestic deaths...

While "if" you could get guns out of the hands of criminals, I believe it would lower homicide rates. The problem is you can not do that anymore than eliminate drugs from the hand of criminals.

More deaths are a result of police and military use of weapons than by civilians throughout history. So by the rational you are using should we not disarm them as well? Even if you discount people such as Kates and others that have shown a significant number of defensive uses of firearms. The statement we could eliminate almost all homicide is incorrect even if you assume no additional substitution, about 30% of homicides in US are not commited with a firearm.

Russia has a extremely high homicide rate with strict gun-control. I believe they are considered a 1st world country. Other factors have a far greater effect on crime than firearms; income inequality, unemployment, and culture would have more effect on lowering the crime rate if those issue were adequately addressed.

Originally Posted by wyly

it's obvious that if you could keep guns out of the hands of criminals by an effective control method gun crime would go down...keeping guns out of the hands of everyone but the police and military and you could reduce this to near zero domestic deaths...

Perhaps a great liberal thinker like yourself can solve the crime problem in Mexico. Now, they already have gun control laws so restrictive that it makesit almost impossible for a law abiding citizen to get a permit from the police or military to obtain anything more powerful than a .22. There is no death penalty, and the criminal justice and law enforcement establishments there are more corrupt than even the worst liberal-democrat urban strongholds in the US. How will you stop the drug gangs from killing each other and innocent victims with the illegal weapons they usually bring up from Central and South America with their narcotics?

Originally Posted by Greataxe

Perhaps a great liberal thinker like yourself can solve the crime problem in Mexico.

Gun control cannot solve a crime problem. It can, however, generate positive externalities through lower crime rates. If you want to make a big deal of Mexico I'll set you a task: can you find one scholarly empirical study that supports your position

Originally Posted by Foghlai

From data suggesting gun prevalence is correlated with crime rates a common argument is made that gun control would reduce crime rates. Evidence suggests that such effects are not significant (Moorhouse and Brent Wanner 2006, Does gun control reduce crime or does crime increase gun control? Vol. 26 Nbr. 1) (http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj26n1/cj26n1-6.pdf)

Why aren't reduction effects of gun control on crime rates supported?

Why would you think gun control would reduce crime? There is no reason to suppose it would.

Reducing the number of people killed with guns? That may be another matter.