Thread: California's ban on handgun carry works....

Originally Posted by Silverhair

Crime does cause poverty. That is easily demonstrated. In areas that have high crime, business that employ people tend to shut down or move away. The crime and needed security adds to their expense. So good jobs are lost. Stores that stay have to charge higher prices to make up for the costs of crime. People who can afford to move away to safer places. Those left are the ones who can't move, usually because they are too poor to move. Simply put, money runs away from crime, leaving poverty.

That is a great example of one way that crime causes poverty, but there are more.

- It is hard for people with a criminal record to get a good job. Criminals are usually forced into low-wage jobs, increasing their chances of staying in poverty.
- Part of the criminal mentality is a "something for nothing, money without work" mentality. It also includes an "I don't care about rules" aspect. Both of these run contrary to the mentality needed to get out of poverty.
- Criminals in prison often leave behind children. Those children are raised in a single-parent household which increases their chances of poverty and their chances of becoming criminals themselves.

Totally true. I was concentrating on how crime effect an area. You focused on the effect on the individual and his family. Both are devastating.

Originally Posted by Silverhair

Crime does cause poverty. That is easily demonstrated. In areas that have high crime, business that employ people tend to shut down or move away. The crime and needed security adds to their expense. So good jobs are lost. Stores that stay have to charge higher prices to make up for the costs of crime. People who can afford to move away to safer places. Those left are the ones who can't move, usually because they are too poor to move. Simply put, money runs away from crime, leaving poverty.

That's why our law enforcement community needs to focus on getting rid of the criminal, not guns.

Originally Posted by TornadoSiren

you are correct..I should not have said that poverty is the number one cause of crime, I should have said that poverty is the most prevalent factor in crime. And it CAN be said that crime creates poverty, however, every sociological study that has been done shows that the statistics are on the side of the reverse. But there are many other factors. Disconnect with society, lack of support groups are only a few of the many factors which contribute to crime.

Poverty can mean about anything to anyone at any given time. People who live in absoulte poverty can be among the peaceful and moral inhabitants of the world. Look at the present day Amish, Mennonites and similar groups with very low incomes and very low crime. Although they may be known for burning witches, the Puritans from 400 years ago lived in grinding poverty worse than any present day ghetto. They didn't have Section 8 housing benefits and lived in shacks without heat, electricity and plumbing. They didn't have access to good healthcare or Medicaide entitlements. Schools were underfunded and deteriorated. There were no WIC centers to hand out food and baby formulas and about half the children died by age five. As an ethnic minority, the poor whites were surrounded by the often hostile and racist majority native americans who would unjustly murder and enslave them. Amazingly, the Puritans and other European settlers didn't form into gangs and murder each other on a daily basis, given their hopeless poverty and access to firearms and weapons.

Similarly, why wasn't crime so high during the Great Depression? Yes Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde got the headlines, but they were a rarity, and their rampages lasted only a couple of years. Gangs like the Crips, Bloods and M-13 have been allowed to run free for decades. Crime of all types was much lower in the Depresion than it is now, and a vast majority lived in much poorer conditions than now.

I haven't seen any real evidence to prove this wrong, but historcally, crime is most directly linked to: 1) race, 2) culture/religion/enforcement of laws, 3) family structure, and 4) economic conditions.

Originally Posted by onalandline

That's why our law enforcement community needs to focus on getting rid of the criminal, not guns.

we could start by ending the war on drugs which just creates criminals

arrest people for committing crimes, not for having taking a break from a hard day\weeks work

http://eazysmoke.com/marijuana-quotes.htm

"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
- Albert Einstein quote on Hemp"

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Originally Posted by FreshAir

we could start by ending the war on drugs which just creates criminals

arrest people for committing crimes, not for having taking a break from a hard day\weeks work

http://eazysmoke.com/marijuana-quotes.htm

"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
- Albert Einstein quote on Hemp"

.

I would have to agree that the war on drugs is a losing campaign.