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Old 01-20-2008, 01:11 PM
k7leetha k7leetha is offline
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Default 2nd Amendment Made Clear

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
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Old 01-21-2008, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by k7leetha View Post
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
How are you making it clear? You're just copying the second amendment word for word and bolding and sizing randomly.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:30 AM
k7leetha k7leetha is offline
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Do you take everything as literal interpretation?

That's exactly what it was, sized and made bold to stand out and be made clear. Ever hear of highlighters?

It's not random. It's specific to the key words of the Amendment.
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:02 AM
k7leetha k7leetha is offline
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Okay, here.

A body of citizens organized for military service, being absolutely needed for the quality or state of being secure, that is freedom from danger -safety- and freedom from fear or anxiety, and enjoying personal freedom, that is not subject to the control or domination of another, the power or privilege to which one is justly entitled to to take care of and to exert influence or force of a means (as a weapon) of offense or defense shall not be encroached upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another.

That was the fully developed version using dictionary definitions from Merriam-Webster.

I think the original writing was still the clearest.
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Old 01-23-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k7leetha View Post
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
You seem like a wonderful person and I'm sure you have some great personality traits and not just a pleasant attitude. You are obviously enlightened and it is a blessing for us for you have to post here at all!


You need to come up with something much more compelling than that to make a point (any point) because the real entity that decides what the Constitution "means" has said that the citizen's right to keep and bear arms exists independently of the 2nd Amendment.

The Supreme Court has said the right to arms (specifically the right to arms of freed slaves) "is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence."

That means the construction of the provision is a separate entity from the pre-existing right it merely recognizes and guarantees. . . The words chosen to secure the right can not be constructed to outwardly constrict or restrict or define or constrain the right.

I have no idea what you are arguing here . . . Is the right individual, exercisable by private citizens without permission from government or is it a conditional right exercisable only in a collective, public duty organization controlled by and acting at the behest of government?

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Originally Posted by k7leetha View Post
Okay, here.

I think the original writing was still the clearest.
You have taken something very plain and understandable (for someone with an affinity for those once "self evident" principles) and reduced it to new age gobbledygook.

Last edited by Europe Rick; 01-23-2008 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by k7leetha View Post
Do you take everything as literal interpretation?

That's exactly what it was, sized and made bold to stand out and be made clear. Ever hear of highlighters?

It's not random. It's specific to the key words of the Amendment.

The 2nd amendment is a valuable safeguard of the freedom of the people. I think we can agree here.


To Europe Rick, I would suggest you read these quotes

"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
--James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."
--Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950]

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress ... to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.... "
--Samuel Adams

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188



And from another famous person

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."
-- Adolph Hitler, Hitler's Secret Conversations 403 (Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens trans., 1961)




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Last edited by greatamerican128; 01-23-2008 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:29 PM
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To Europe Rick, I would suggest you read these quotes
Uhhhhh, OK.

What's your point?

Do you think we are granted the right to keep and bear arms?
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Europe Rick View Post
Uhhhhh, OK.

What's your point?

Do you think we are granted the right to keep and bear arms?
George Mason, Thomas Jefferson and most of the founding fathers would tell you that.
Although if you want to support Hitler or Stalin's position on gun control that would be understandable.
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by greatamerican128 View Post
George Mason, Thomas Jefferson and most of the founding fathers would tell you that.
Although if you want to support Hitler or Stalin's position on gun control that would be understandable.
What have I written that would elicit such an accusation? I think you better re-read my post above and brush up on the constitutional principles of those you quote as to the origin of our rights.

And answer my question.

Last edited by Europe Rick; 01-24-2008 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:18 PM
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What have I written that would elicit such an accusation? I think you better re-read my post above and brush up on the constitutional principles of those you quote as to the origin of our rights.

And answer my question.
Would you accept the restriction of free speech if the supreme court said part of the 1st amendment was unconstitutional?

Listen to the founding fathers, they know the constitution more than the supreme court. They overwhelmingly supported the right of citizens to own weapons.



"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."

-George Mason, father of the Bill of Rights


"A free people ought to be armed."

-George Washington, 1st president of the United States


"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."

-James Madison, 4th president of the United States


"...arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them."

-Thomas Paine, published Common Sense


"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."

-Samuel Adams, statesmen, brewer, politician, writer, and founding father



Of course the founding fathers must have been wrong because guns are horrible, right?
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