Thread: .22lr, effective round for self defense

well there was the American 180 full auto rifle,177 round drum of .22was good enough for police departments and prisons.....I fired one years ago a class III dealer had at the local gun range,One could chew the center out of a target with ease

Originally Posted by LoneStrSt8

well there was the American 180 full auto rifle,177 round drum of .22was good enough for police departments and prisons.....I fired one years ago a class III dealer had at the local gun range,One could chew the center out of a target with ease

There is also a machine gun that shoots BB's to shoot out windows for tactical entries.

For the average person here in the US, that does not have an large budget, or access to class III weapons, the logical choice for a "front line" defence gun is going to be a semi-auto handgun (9mm and above), and/or a military type rifle in .308, .223, etc. Shotguns are thrid place. And .22's at or near the bottom.

^
Exactly.

If .22LR's are so effective, why are they not deployed as standard issue for police and military?

Originally Posted by leftlegmoderate

Awhile back, I argued in support of the Kel Tec PMR-30 as an ideal defense weapon. My argument was based upon four things. 1) I actually witnessed firsthand, a man shot and killed in self defense with a .22lr. He was stopped dead in his tracks. 2) The PMR-30, being a 22 mag, packs a fair deal more punch than the standard .22lr. 3) 30 f'n rounds, in a handgun, without having to reload! 4)Low recoil.

The best argument against my claim was 'bigger is better'. While it's true that a large round with greater velocity obviously has greater potential, people often forget to consider the effects of recoil. This problem with recoil only compounds the problem of performing under stress, especially when you're completely caught off guard. If you claim to be a tough guy who can handle a 9 or .45 like it's a water gun, well, a .22 mag should be like a laser guided missile in your 'Thor like' hands of awesomeness.

It's attitudes like this that keep the NRA well funded to fight ignorance.

Originally Posted by Greataxe

There is also a machine gun that shoots BB's to shoot out windows for tactical entries.

For the average person here in the US, that does not have an large budget, or access to class III weapons, the logical choice for a "front line" defence gun is going to be a semi-auto handgun (9mm and above), and/or a military type rifle in .308, .223, etc. Shotguns are thrid place. And .22's at or near the bottom.

I know,just citing an example where .22LRwas used

And large budget is right,saw one for sale at gun broker for 15 grand

Originally Posted by Wolverine

^
Exactly.

If .22LR's are so effective, why are they not deployed as standard issue for police and military?

You're comparing Apples to Oranges.

Soldiers and religious fanatics are motivated. Likewise, a criminal who attacks a police officer knows that the police officer is armed, so that criminal is motivated in his own weird way.

In contrast, home intruders choose "an easy mark"; they are NOT motivated. When anything is fired, they'll normally run or offer minimal resistance. Hit 'em once with lead and they'll definitely break off an attack, I don't car how hard core they are (or think they are).

Originally Posted by CoastieGM

You're comparing Apples to Oranges.

Soldiers and religious fanatics are motivated. Likewise, a criminal who attacks a police officer knows that the police officer is armed, so that criminal is motivated in his own weird way.

In contrast, home intruders choose "an easy mark"; they are NOT motivated. When anything is fired, they'll normally run or offer minimal resistance. Hit 'em once with lead and they'll definitely break off an attack, I don't car how hard core they are (or think they are).

My point is that the .22LR is not as effective as.... lets say a .45ACP.

Originally Posted by CoastieGM

You're comparing Apples to Oranges.

Soldiers and religious fanatics are motivated. Likewise, a criminal who attacks a police officer knows that the police officer is armed, so that criminal is motivated in his own weird way.

In contrast, home intruders choose "an easy mark"; they are NOT motivated. When anything is fired, they'll normally run or offer minimal resistance. Hit 'em once with lead and they'll definitely break off an attack, I don't car how hard core they are (or think they are).

Home invasion artists are going to be much more "hardcore" than the typical shoplifter or drug dealer. In the US at least, most know there is at least some chance they will be confronted by an armed homeowner, even if they think the house is unoccupied. The more desperate home invaders are usually under the influence of a dangerous narcotic, and added to the adrenaline pulsing through them, will often charge right on in, even when confronted and even shot with a gun. There are pleanty of accounts of this happening.

Unless the "raging bull" is shot thru the spinal cord, or "fatal T" area of the head, they will not always stop, even when hit by high powered rounds in the chest and heart.

Do what you want, but I'm not going to put my faith on a .22 round.

Do

Originally Posted by Greataxe

Do what you want, but I'm not going to put my faith on a .22 round.

A .22 round? No.

A full clip unloaded center mass. I'm fine with that. Though preferably I'd prefer a .380 but I'll take whatever I can get.

In a past thread the matter of what firearm a person would choose to own if there was a complete breakdown of society (e.g. the zombie apocalypse LOL) and my choice was a semi-auto 22 rifle with a good scope. My logic was that I can own and transport far more ammunition and a 22LR and it can be used for game at least as large as a deer effectively as well as being capable to defend against people if need dictated. It's not the perfect anti-personnel round but it will work in an emergency.

If I was only concerned with an anti-personnel weapon I'd probably select a Colt 357 Python. I had one in Vietnam as a personal defense weapon (along with my M16) and felt very secure with it. The recoil isn't excessive, it was highly accurate up to well over 100 yards and it has stopping power that a 2LR lacks. As noted though, even if I used it for game hunting, the ammo simply weighs too much for a long term survival weapon. I could easily carry three times as much 22LR ammo when compared to 357 mag ammo and that takes precedent for long term survival needs.