Here's a clip from an interesting article showing that poverty does not cause crime:


But there's little evidence to suggest that good economic times have much effect on crime. Crime rates rose every year between 1955 and 1972, even as the U.S. economy surged, with only a brief, mild recession in the early 1960s. By the time criminals took a breather in the early 1970s, crime rates had increased over 140 percent. Murder rates had risen about 70 percent, rapes more than doubled, and auto theft nearly tripled.

By the same token, a bad economy doesn't always bring more crime. Crime rates fell about one third between 1934 and 1938 while the nation was struggling to emerge from the Great Depression and weathering another severe economic downturn in 1937 and 1938. Surely, if the economic theory held, crime should have been soaring.

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed111500a.cfm

Okay I understand what you are saying, so I should have said people less well off rather than poor.

But my point is that being 'less well off' does not force people to turn to crime.

Do you think the guy dead eye Dick Cheney shot thought deeply about it?

Simple,

Admiral Yamamoto:

You cannot invade mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.

(and for your question, it goes to show politicians are more occupied with their own interests than homeland defense - look at FEMA for God sakes)

__________________
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." - Alexander Pope

Good quote. Now here is a question. There are those that say they want less government, and less tax. But then why do they then complain when the government is not helping them?

Yeah I know it is a bit off topic, but the thread seems dead anyway.

__________________
Jones:- We're going to teach them climbing, abseiling, canoeing, archery, shooting...

Interviewer:- Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible isn't it?

Jones:- I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the range.

Interviewer:- Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?
You're equipping them to become violent killers.

Jones:- Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute but you're not one are you?

I haven't read the whole thread but I just wanted to add a piece of pointless trivia.

We have very strict - VERY strict - gun laws in Australia. As a result, hardly anybody has guns and hardly anybody dies in shootings. (Port Arthur notable exception - to pre-empt anyone bringing that up and yes, that event heralded the stricter gun laws that we have)

Anyway, the Chesboy and I were watching the news the other night and there was a story about how some guy living in a suburb about 20 minutes from ours was caught with a gun, and there were pictures of the gun and so on and so forth. We were shocked - and then said to each other `if this was in the US it wouldn't have even been noticed, let alone a whole news story devoted to it'. And it wouldn't. But in Australia, guns are still treated with suspicion and shock and whenever anyone is caught with one (which doesn't happen often) it makes the news.

I have to say, I like it that way. We are a virtually gun-free culture, and crime levels aren't affected by it and people don't quake with fear in their beds at night. You will get used to whatever your environment supplies for you. There's no need to own guns, just no need. But I can't imagine any way at all in which you could achieve the kind of thing we have here in the US. I just can't see how it could be done. I guess there's no un-ringing that bell.

__________________
We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

While Aus has always had lower levels of violent crimes in comparison to the U.S. the levels of violent crime in Aus have remained virtually the same both pre control and post control. So once again getting rid of guns really did not change anything.

It does not matter if you are killed by a knife or a gun, you are still dead. So if getting rid of guns does not lower crime levels then what does it solve? It makes people feel better I guess. Not this guy.

__________________
Jones:- We're going to teach them climbing, abseiling, canoeing, archery, shooting...

Interviewer:- Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible isn't it?

Jones:- I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the range.

Interviewer:- Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?
You're equipping them to become violent killers.

Jones:- Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute but you're not one are you?

Well we didn't `get rid' of guns, per se, because owning them was never illegal - just wasn't as strictly regulated. There was just a nationwide buy-back of certain types of guns and laws became much stricter laws. Another review was called for after the massacre at Virginia Tech. Gun ownership here is not illegal - it's just very strictly regulated now. Here's a good run-down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

Our laws have made quite a difference in crime rates involving guns - so there has been a definite outcome in that regard. Interestingly, guns are most used in this country to commit suicide - something I didn't know.

But to ask your question in a different way - if it makes no difference to crime then why make guns more easily accessible? Don't try to fix what ain't broke, in my opinion - because if guns aren't a problem now they could well be if we relaxed the laws. And staying static is far, far preferable to going backwards.

__________________
We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

Laws don't seem to be "relaxed" very often. Usually it's quite the opposite. More and more laws are introduced usually. At some point possessing a firearm could protect one from potential oppressive law. The removal of one's protection is only justified if the government is able to guarantee protection. Otherwise they are guaranteeing your dependence on them.

__________________
Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness ~Thomas Paine