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Old 03-25-2008, 03:40 PM
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Default Learning firearms for personal protection.

This is simply an attempt to educate firearms owners as to the proper handing and shooting techniques.

If you do not like firearms, then I suggest that you do not view any further.

Before I go any further, I am not a certified civilian instructor, I am just a Marine with a few deployments, and several years of training, and experience in training Marines how to do their job. Nothing you read here will qualify you as an expert, or anything of the like. It is just something to help you train yourself when out on the range, or when carrying on your day to day life.

I honestly believe that proper training would solve a great number of problems, so here we go.

First off let us cover the safety rules when it comes to firearms.

1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded. (even if you just cleared it)
2. Never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to destroy
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire
4. Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire
5. Know your target, your weapon's capabilities and be mindful of what is beyond your target

These five rules are the bedrock for every situation where you may use a firearm. If you follow these rules then you can not go wrong. Ignore them and bad things can happen.

We will skip the weapons conditions because there are so many different variations because of the sheer number of differences between pistols, and rifles. If you have a specific question about a particular weapon, please feel free to ask.

Choosing a firearm.

Well there are a LOT of opinions out there as to what type and caliber weapon is best. I personally only carry .45, same goes for my wife. But YOU have to be able to reliably hit the target under harsh conditions. A .22lr to the chest is better than a .50AE to the leg. So get the largest caliber that you can reliably hit center mass with. This means, if you can not fire off three rounds from the holster, and have all three rounds impact the target within a soccer ball sized pattern from 15 yards within three seconds, then you need to pick a different weapon.

You also have to think about terminal effects on target. I posted this in another thread, but I will re post it here just for GP.



One thing you have to think about here is this test was done with only one make of projectile. Standard JHP (Jacketed Hollow point). There are about a thousand different types of hollow point out there, and each one will react differently. Some are better, some are worse. You also have to remember that this test was done with 10% calibrated ballistics gel. While most hollow points will reliably expand in gel, this is not always the case in flesh. If you are told that a round will expand 90% of the time in gel, then it will only expand 40% of the time in flesh. So this is not exactly a good test medium, and a large number of professionals in the ballistics community are attempting to change the standard.

Many companies have now opted to use live animal testing, while PETA does not like this, the test results are more reliable.

Hydroshock rounds will generally only expand 30% of the time in flesh.

Extreme shock rounds do have devastating effects on target, when they work correctly. But they will only fragment if they hit bone, and they do not expand reliably when hitting soft tissue. Also, using a round that is billed to be this devastating does not look good when the wrongful death suit is filed (and one will be filed). You have to be able to prove that you carry for protection, not to kill your attacker (yeah sounds stupid, I know) This means you have to show that you responded in defense, and only wanted to end the attack.

Tallons are not illegal, and they do expand very reliably. But once again, it makes it look like you walked out of your house with the intent to kill someone. Not defend yourself.

Smell what I am stepping in?

This is why I run Federal HSTs, they expand reliably in flesh fairly well, and it is the round that a greater majority of the police forces use. So it looks better during your wrongful death suit. Standard ball or wadcutters would look even better during that case, but they have a tendency to over penetrate, so you are more likely to have a through and through, that is a bad thing. We DO NOT want our bullets to punch all the way through. So using a round like Federal HSTs makes you look good. Also remember that (when talking hollow points) a faster round will tend to open up more, and penetrate less. This does not mean that a 9mm is better than a .45. It is just something to think about.

So say you decide to run .45, and you have two choices. A 230 gr HP that has a muzzle velocity of 995 fps, and a 200 gr HP that has a muzzle velocity of 1025 fps. The faster lighter round will tend to open up more and penetrate less, this is a good thing and a bad thing. Good because a through and through is less likely, bad because it may not penetrate to vital organs from all angles. It is a trade off that you have to think about when choosing your weapon and ammo.

Now this is just stuff for pistols, we will get into rifles later on, if you people want to learn about them.

While you are required to take a firearms class before you receive your CCW, and while it does teach you proper techniques for handling that weapon, it does not prepare you to use it in defense of yourself.

When training my wife to carry, I took a few of the things I taught in my small arms course, and mixed in a few things that most civilians would use

I always recommend practicing with the isosceles. All this is, is feet planted shoulder width apart and square with the body, slightly leaning forward to control the recoil of the weapon, and both arms pressed forward equally.

Start out by simply practicing slow, get rounds on target, once you master getting rounds center mass, then you can start to speed up your shots. At this point, if you are driving nails, then you are firing too slow. In a defense situation, you want to get a few rounds off to end the attack, then beat feet to the nearest LEO to tell him what happened. You are not required to render aid once you shoot the bad guy. Get out of there and tell a cop what happened. Not only does this reduce the chances of his buddies reacting and killing you, but it shows the cops that you were scared for your life.

But back to practicing. Once you get to the point where you can fire three rounds off, starting from the holster, and hitting in a soccer ball sized pattern then you are ready to start stressing your body.

You want to stress your body because no one, NO ONE can honestly say how they will react when their life is in danger. There will always be that fight or flight reflex, and it is surprising how many do not react the way they thought they would. This is not saying that if you can get gone that you shouldnt. This is just saying that many people that can not get away freeze up. This is bad because that weapon they are carrying can be used against them.

So you have to stress your body. Go outside, run circles in the parking lot for a while until you are winded, go back in and practice your speed drills. Have someone standing over your shoulder while yelling into your ear. Anything that stresses you out will help prepare yourself to defend yourself.

Once you master this you can move onto failure to stop drills. All this is, is two rounds center mass to the chest, and one round to the dome.

We practice this because there are only two places on the human body that will stop a target cold. The Medulla oblongata (drool spot) and the spine.

Because we can not rely on a center mass hit to hit the spine, you have to train to hit the drool spot. This is a three inch triangle that is centered around the eyes.



You want to be able to place two rounds center mass and one in the dome within four seconds. We practice this because you may run into someone that is hopped up on some drug, and if he is not feeling pain, then he may continue his attack after being drilled in the chest.

It can make things look worse in your wrongful death suit, but if you can show that you tried to end the attack without it, then you should be good.

Practice this the same way you practiced your three rounds in three seconds from the holster. Draw and fire off as quickly as you can while still getting the bullets to their desired spot on the target. Do this until you have it down to an art form. Once you have it down to an art form start stressing your body. If you plan on carrying a spare mag, then you need to practice speed reloads. This is pretty simple. All you do is load one mag with two rounds, and another mag with one round. Draw from the holster fire off your two rounds. When the weapon runs dry reload. The thing I do not like about the Glock is that the slide lock release is small, my big fingers do not hit it correctly. So I taught my wife to simply rack the slide. That is simply pulling back on it and letting it go. This works for all automatics. Do it till it is an art form then start stressing your body again.
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The National Science Foundation announced the following study results on U.S. military recreation preferences:
1. Sport of choice for Marines: bowling.
2. Sport of choice for Sailors: football.
3. Sport of choice for Soldiers: baseball.
4. Sport of choice for Coast Guardsmen: tennis.
5. Sport of choice for Airmen: golf.
Notice how the farther down the list you go, the smaller their balls get.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:41 PM
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Sorry my message was too long to do in one post. So,,,

Continued.

Choosing a weapon part two. If you do plan on carrying concealed, you need to pick one that you can carry comfortably. If it is comfortable you are more likely to carry it. Those of us that are not used to carrying or shooting may just want to go with a wheel gun (revolver) they are inherently more powerful, and it is six guaranteed shots. They can not jam, and they will not fail to function unless there is something seriously wrong with them. But as they are more powerful, they are harder to accurately place follow on shots. So you have to practice more.

I am a big guy so I can carry a full sized Kimber fairly easily. But my wife is smaller, so she needs a smaller weapon. As I have said before, she decided to go with the Glock 36. It is a weapon that is chambered in .45, it has a single stack mag. It is very reliable, and as it is just a trigger safety, there is one less thing to think about when you do have to draw your weapon. But because it is just a trigger safety, you have to be mindful of handling the weapon. ALSO pay attention when breaking the weapon down, to remove the slide, you have to release the trigger by pulling it. So MAKE SURE you clear the weapon before attempting this. Yes I know that should seem like common sense, but sometimes people forget things.

Now, dealing with the cops if they show up during, or just after you use your weapon to defend yourself.

Do not make any sudden movements. Cops are humans just like us, and as such are subseptable to stress. I would suggest against dropping your weapon as dropping it can (rarely) cause it to fire. Years ago an off duty cop was involved in a shooting, the cops showed up he dropped his weapon, it fired. The cops shot him dead. Most cops will show up and say (it is almost universal now) police don't move. You should respond Police don't shoot (even if you are not a cop).

Do not try to help them, just do not move. Let them handle it.

I am sure some of the anti gunners will come in here and try to start something. But I ask that you do not. If you do, prepare to be in a mental battle armed with a slingshot when your opponent is armed with a howitzer.
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The National Science Foundation announced the following study results on U.S. military recreation preferences:
1. Sport of choice for Marines: bowling.
2. Sport of choice for Sailors: football.
3. Sport of choice for Soldiers: baseball.
4. Sport of choice for Coast Guardsmen: tennis.
5. Sport of choice for Airmen: golf.
Notice how the farther down the list you go, the smaller their balls get.

Last edited by C-D-P; 03-25-2008 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:45 PM
hendrixpujols11 hendrixpujols11 is offline
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but many gun deaths are intentional so this would not solve that problem. Not all gun deaths are caused by accidents.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:47 PM
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I'll just add a pre-emptive mod warning: this is a dedicated gun usage/characteristics thread. It's not about gun control, or the Second Amendment, or anything like that. So please don't come here to start such arguments. There are plenty of threads for that already.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:52 PM
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Thank you Ray.
__________________
The National Science Foundation announced the following study results on U.S. military recreation preferences:
1. Sport of choice for Marines: bowling.
2. Sport of choice for Sailors: football.
3. Sport of choice for Soldiers: baseball.
4. Sport of choice for Coast Guardsmen: tennis.
5. Sport of choice for Airmen: golf.
Notice how the farther down the list you go, the smaller their balls get.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:53 PM
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Two questions.

I don't have a concealed permit (and depending on where I live may have a hard time getting one). But if I do what is you opinion of pistol reliability. I've gone target shooting with .45's and 9mm and I have not been impressed with reliability. Both for jamming and other odd things (like the rear sight getting knocked out of alignment from regular firing).

Second what do you think about laser sights? They're coming out with ones that are easier and easier to integrate into a gun. It would seem to be an advantage as you could focus more on the attacker than on your sight picture.
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Old 03-25-2008, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
Two questions.

I don't have a concealed permit (and depending on where I live may have a hard time getting one). But if I do what is you opinion of pistol reliability. I've gone target shooting with .45's and 9mm and I have not been impressed with reliability. Both for jamming and other odd things (like the rear sight getting knocked out of alignment from regular firing).
What type of pistols were you using? Cause I have never had a problem with any 9mm chambering a round. Most 9mm pistols have over sized feed ramps and ejection ports. So they tend to have fewer stoppages (at least in my experience.) The only caliber that I have seen have a lot of feeding problems with across the board is the .40. Just about any pistol chambered in .40 has a feed ramp that is roughly the same size as the 9mm ramp for that same weapon type.

I do not think I have ever had a stoppage with any Kimber built gun I have ever owned. And Glock is supposed to be extremely reliable as well. But if you just do not feel comfortable with an automatic, go with a wheel gun. There is nothing wrong with that. And in a defense situation, you should not need to fire off more than three or four shots.

About the whole rear sight thing. That is odd. A lot of pistols use a restriction fit, meaning it had to be pressed in. But some like the 92FS are different and use a screw fit so jarring may move them. If you are having this problem you should be able to take it to any gun smith and get it tightened up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
Second what do you think about laser sights? They're coming out with ones that are easier and easier to integrate into a gun. It would seem to be an advantage as you could focus more on the attacker than on your sight picture.
Laser sites are ok, if you have gotten the basics down pat first. Do not rely on it as your only aiming source. Cause something could come up and it just decides to not work on you. Using a laser sight just makes things a bit easier because it removes one equation from the problem. Then all you have to worry about is your grip (remember that recoil follows the path of least resistance).

There are several laser sites available now that fit directly into the buffer spring in the slide. So it does not mess with your carry. But as I understand it, you can not dial it in, it is just fixed. So you will not be driving nails with it. But you will be getting rounds on target.

I always teach to fire with both eyes open, that way you can sight in and pay attention to your attacker.
__________________
The National Science Foundation announced the following study results on U.S. military recreation preferences:
1. Sport of choice for Marines: bowling.
2. Sport of choice for Sailors: football.
3. Sport of choice for Soldiers: baseball.
4. Sport of choice for Coast Guardsmen: tennis.
5. Sport of choice for Airmen: golf.
Notice how the farther down the list you go, the smaller their balls get.

Last edited by C-D-P; 03-25-2008 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 03-25-2008, 04:36 PM
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C-D-P....
Good post with good info.

Sunnyside,
Reliability depends on a lot of factors. I've used a Ruger .45 for several years and the only problem I've had with it was a box of rounds I got from a friend. I don't the make (and never should have used them) but the walls were weak and they would distort enough after firing that they would jam.

Proper use and cleaning, along with using quality ammo (not nessassarily expensive) can eliminate many reliability issues.
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Old 03-25-2008, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheeler View Post
C-D-P....
Good post with good info.

Sunnyside,
Reliability depends on a lot of factors. I've used a Ruger .45 for several years and the only problem I've had with it was a box of rounds I got from a friend. I don't the make (and never should have used them) but the walls were weak and they would distort enough after firing that they would jam.

Proper use and cleaning, along with using quality ammo (not nessassarily expensive) can eliminate many reliability issues.
Thanks brother. I should have said something about that. But sometimes the obvious escapes me.
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The National Science Foundation announced the following study results on U.S. military recreation preferences:
1. Sport of choice for Marines: bowling.
2. Sport of choice for Sailors: football.
3. Sport of choice for Soldiers: baseball.
4. Sport of choice for Coast Guardsmen: tennis.
5. Sport of choice for Airmen: golf.
Notice how the farther down the list you go, the smaller their balls get.
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:24 AM
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First off you need to figure out what you plan on doing with this weapon. Is it to be used as a range gun, or do you want it for personal protection? If all you want is a weapon to take to the range and blow off rounds then you may want to look at a .22lr target pistol. The rounds are cheap, and it is easy to handle. It has a very light slide, very low recoil, and very low muzzle signature. But not the best weapon for personal protection, although, like I said earlier, a .22 to the chest is better than a .50 AE to the leg. The Browning Buck Mark .22 Auto is great for this. It is decently priced, and pretty durable.

Now for defense, are you planning on getting a CCW, or do you just want it sitting on your nightstand?

Or if you have kids, in a bed side safe.

If you go with a bedside safe, you have multiple options. I would suggest against a regular combination lock. It takes time to unlock those. Key locks are pretty good, and fairly cheap to buy. After you put your kids to bed you can lock your door and put the key in it for easy access. Or you fork over the extra cash and get one of these The finger print safe is about the best way to go, You can get in them faster, and only you can access them. There are other types out there, but these are the most common. Also, do not solely rely on a bedside safe to keep your weapon from being stolen when you are not home. Crooks can easily pick it up and break into it when they get back to their own home. So I would also suggest a fixed wall safe to store it while you are gone.

Now say you do not plan on carrying concealed, and only want it for home defense. First off remember that you are better off going with a rifle. But depending on where you live, a good rifle may be more difficult to get a hold of, and they are more difficult to store close to your bed. So we will just talk about pistols for now.

For straight up home defense a longer pistol is always better, the more distance you have between the front and rear sight, the more room for error you have when aiming. But if you plan on carrying concealed, then you may want to go with a compact or a sub compact. But remember the smaller you go, the less room for error with talking about aiming. Also, the smaller you go, the less room you have for things like larger feed ramps, ejection ports, and extra rounds. But if you are carrying, you should not have to fire off more than three or four rounds.

Glock, Taurus, Sig, and Colt all make pistols with fairly light slides. So you can easily work the action, and in a tense situation you do not want to be struggling with the slide. The Glock 21 is an excellent choice for home defense. It is a full sized pistol chambered in .45. Everyone, regardless of size can handle it, I do not care what anyone says. With proper training, and good aggressive stances, everyone can handle the recoil. But not the best choice for a concealed carry weapon. While it is a full-sized weapon, it is not overly bulky. It has a fairly slim profile, and is very reliable. But if you feel you will not be able to handle it, you can always go with a Glock 17, or a Glock 22. Remember, any round center mass will hurt the target, and will eventually kill the target. You really can not go wrong with Glock, they are a great weapon. But you do have to be careful with the trigger safety. But as I said before, in a stressful situation, it is nice to know that you did not forget to take if off safe.

Glock 30 is a good choice for a concealed gun, it is chambered in .45, its mag holds ten rounds, and it can accept a full sized mag if you want. Glock 36 is another good compact, but it only has a single stack six round mag, and can not accept regular full sized mags. But as it is a single stack, it has a much slimmer profile, and as such, is easier to conceal, and is more comfortable to wear. Purse guns are worthless because they take more time to draw to bear.

Taurus also makes a great weapon. They are reliable, and the compact models have fairly light slides. The Taurus PT 145 is a good carry gun. It is chambered in .45 and I hear it is very comfortable to carry. I have only fired it a few times, but I did experience a few stoppages because of its compact nature.

A good weapon that I did not mention before is the Springfield XD. But (unless I am wrong) they do not make a compact in .45, only .40 and 9mm. And the subcompact only comes in 9mm, and the Springfield's tend to be a bit cheaper price wise without being cheaper quality wise.Once again, any round center mass will kill. The only difference is how long it takes for them to bleed out. Bigger holes mean a faster bleed.

There are even a few gun makers that make custom finishes for their weapons. Hell Glock even makes a Glock 17 with a pink slide, pink trigger, and pink tips for the mag. But I guess that would be up to you. I guess it would match those new shoes (don't get mad, I was making a joke).

If you simply do not like any of the automatics you have tried out, then go with a wheel gun. As I have said, and will continue to say, there is nothing wrong with them. They are still very good pistols. But they do require some extra training to get rounds on target quickly.

There are hundreds of pistols to choose from. You can get all the advice in the world, but you have to choose your piece. Every shooter is different, and has different preferences.

Another thing. Most men will determine the way they dress by the piece they carry. I hope this does not seem sexist, I do not mean it to. But most women will not take this into account, so they need to take more care in choosing their carry weapon. I have found through years of working with firearms, and spending time at the range, that a woman will be more likely to leave her carry gun at home if it does not fit well with a certain outfit that she really wants to wear. So YOU HAVE TO take care in choosing what you carry.

My wife likes to look good in her clothes. She likes to wear her boobie shirts during the summer, and while wearing them, it is hard to carry without everyone knowing you are carrying. That is why I was happy when she decided to go with the G36. She can easily conceal it in her beltline while wearing a tight top.

A few of the types of carry I see the most.

Inside the belt is easier to conceal, but less comfortable for most, outside the belt is more comfortable but harder to conceal. And I doubt any of us will be wearing fannypacks.

A lot of people really like the rear carry. All this is, is an inside the belt carry with the weapon placed just off center of your back. It is comfortable, and easy to conceal. But it takes longer to draw from this carry. The strong side carry is probably the easiest to draw from, but is hard to conceal, especially if you are a bit overweight. It is also not very comfortable if you carry inside the belt. My personal favorite is the spleen carry. This is in the front, just off center closer to your strong side. It is fairly comfortable, easily concealed, and easy to draw. I feel that it is the best balance between all the factors. But all of this comes down to personal preference, YOU have to figure out what works best for you.
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The National Science Foundation announced the following study results on U.S. military recreation preferences:
1. Sport of choice for Marines: bowling.
2. Sport of choice for Sailors: football.
3. Sport of choice for Soldiers: baseball.
4. Sport of choice for Coast Guardsmen: tennis.
5. Sport of choice for Airmen: golf.
Notice how the farther down the list you go, the smaller their balls get.
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