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Old 05-21-2008, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by f0ca1 View Post
Since the enforcement of the sullivan law in the early 90's, crime has gone way down.

New York is the safest big city in the country.
Is the enforcement of the Sullivan Law of the early 90's the only factor in bringing crime down in New York? If not, what are some other factors?
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2008, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by f0ca1 View Post
We did.

Since the enforcement of the sullivan law in the early 90's, crime has gone way down.
Your drop in crime has little to do with the Sullivan law. I can say this because all crime dropped, in NY after the LE reform in the early 90s.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm



Quote:
New York is the safest big city in the country.

Please cite your examples.
Define big city.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108477.html
Will any of these work?

Last edited by C-D-P; 05-22-2008 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:00 AM
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We could all arm ourselves to the teeth. Electify our fences, fortify our homes...install .50 caliber roof mounted turrets w/ 360 degree range of fire.......

Or, you could just buy a dog.

From a law enforcement perspective, taking guns out of the hands of innocent people is not a way to reduce crime. States with liberalized conceal carry laws end up reducing their crime rates.

There are a number of ways to reduce firearm related crimes in urban areas. One way is for local law enforcement to make consentual searches a priority and regularly search the persons and vehicles of known/suspected gang members. That's a great way to get guns out of the hands of criminals. Another way is for law enforcement to make follow-up on violent gang crimes very swift and expeditious. I know of one community that dropped drive-by shootings by 50% in a year, from over 300 to under 150, by requiring gang officers to respond to the scene of the drive-by within an hour, interview the victims, and let them know that if there was a retaliatory shooting that they would be back to arrest the victims.

Harsher gun laws on the books making it harder for the average person to buy a gun isn't the answer. Strict regulation of gun dealers, and harsh prosecution of gun crimes is a better answer.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
Or, you could just buy a dog.
Dogs are a great deterrent in your home. But do not rely on them as an untrained dog (on average) is more likely to cower than attack.

Trained guard dogs require constant training to remain reliable.

That does not mean that I do not have two well trained dogs in my home right now.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:06 AM
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If not, what are some other factors?


The biggest reason that crime dropped so substantially in NYC was that Mayor Giuliani pushed police leaders to follow the broken windows theory. In essence, broken windows says that crime flourishes where low level crimes and deteriorating social conditions are tolerated. This theory is substantiated by the risk factor research pioneered by the Rochester and Seattle Social Development studies. In communities where laws and norms are favorable to drug and gun use, where violence is common in families, and where the community itself shows disorder and a lack of ownership by residents, youth are more likely to join gangs, engage in violence, and act out in other negative and anti-social ways.

This isn't just about gun laws...it is in fact about areas of the community that have significantly disintegrated and where basic structures: the family, the schools, the neighborhood itself--have broken down. THAT is where violence proliferates.

It's easy for NYC to blame their crime problems on North Carolina, certainly far easier than fixing broken neighborhoods, schools, and families.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:10 AM
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Dogs are a great deterrent in your home. But do not rely on them as an untrained dog (on average) is more likely to cower than attack.
In most cases, simply HAVING a dog in your home makes your home far less likely to be targeted. Most criminals do not want to deal with a dog, and will avoid doing so...dogs at the very least are loud and alert to strange noises.

We found that when we put dogs in the E.R.s of our community, where local gang members would often go to investigate the effects of their handiwork after a shooting, that gang members (and other people) were far less likely to argue with a dog than a gun. Interesting, eh?

Studies show that the BEST crime prevention measure any home can have is a dog, overall. So, man's best friend really is.

In the average home, a person is not going to be well-versed in operating firearms or have a trained security dog. But, just having a dog will make a criminal think twice about entering your home. Good news, I think.

Of course, at my house, we have trained ninja attack cats who have had great success at subduing their tails, snakes, birds, lizards, moles, mice, and rabbits. They're excellent at providing home security.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:11 AM
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About broken windows and the success in NYC.
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
In most cases, simply HAVING a dog in your home makes your home far less likely to be targeted. Most criminals do not want to deal with a dog, and will avoid doing so...dogs at the very least are loud and alert to strange noises.

We found that when we put dogs in the E.R.s of our community, where local gang members would often go to investigate the effects of their handiwork after a shooting, that gang members (and other people) were far less likely to argue with a dog than a gun. Interesting, eh?

Studies show that the BEST crime prevention measure any home can have is a dog, overall. So, man's best friend really is.

In the average home, a person is not going to be well-versed in operating firearms or have a trained security dog. But, just having a dog will make a criminal think twice about entering your home. Good news, I think.

Of course, at my house, we have trained ninja attack cats who have had great success at subduing their tails, snakes, birds, lizards, moles, mice, and rabbits. They're excellent at providing home security.
That is exactly why I said they are a great deterrent.

But should someone break in, having a big dog does not mean that dog will attack and defend you.

Dogs, like all animals, have a fight or flight instinct. Some dogs (talking mentality, not breeds) may be more likely to fight than run. So if an untrained dog thinks that the threat to themselves is too great, they will bolt.
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:49 AM
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Default Rhetorical question #1134...

If passing a law that was more strict than before was all it took to solve a problem, why do we have so many prisons?
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Old 05-22-2008, 09:14 AM
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*Strokes his SKS*

I don't see what the problem here is, some nutter who could not legally have a gun shot someone and now they want to ban the gun. They can take mine from my cold dead hands!

RIP Charalton Heston
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