[quote="Wildbore";p="181908"]Must have been a slow news day for CNN to come up with this complete fabrication about burglars SHOOTING someone!!
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/10/co....ap/index.html

And that's just from TODAY'S news....

With your socialized medical system, you'd need to be rushed to the U.S. to get medical care if you jabbed yourself with the stick. I've always enjoyed my time in Canada (French-Canadian girls sort of do it for me), but I see no need for the U.S. to imitate what is said to work for others, who are clearly different in their view of things.

I'm not sure where you're getting that basis for your diatribe on walking through open doors. Possibly you hear voices or see things that aren't there?

Do I need a gun? No. I don't need a garage full of cars that do over 150 mph either, but I still have them. 300 hp and 100 round drums. That's how it works here, mi amico.

Where I live, the murder rate is extremely low and shooting deaths are almost uneard of. But the per capita gun ownership rate is probably the highest in the entire state. I'll try to find the most recent, actual figure and we'll compare it to Canada on whole or the province where you live some time.

This house is my world. It doesn't matter how you get in. Unless I invite you in with open arms, should I catch you in here, your soul will still belong to God, but your @$$ will belong to me. What might I do? Well, we don't know the answer to that... not really. And so far, there have been no volunteers to help me find out.

There is gun control in the U.S.: felons are prohibited from owning or possessing ANY TYPE of firearm. The NRA and other groups have pressed for those laws to be better enforced. But liberal gun grabbers spend their time trying to ban .22 cal. Ruger target pistols, tax shotgun primers or dreaming up silly measures that would not affect crime in the least.

Do I need an AK47? No. That's why I have two of them. My uncle is even buying me a nightvision scope for my heavy barrel, Dragunov look-alike for Christmas. Thanks, Santa (Santa's an NRA Life Member too, I hear).

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"Tweeter was a Boyscout before she went to Vietnam and found out the hard way... nobody gives a d@mn."

Perhaps things are very different in Canada, but in the United States we have a methamphetamine craze that has led to a senseless wave of murders. Under the influence of this drug, addicts kill people whom they rob whether or not the robbery victims voluntary give up their money or property. Somehow, these people manage to get their hands on guns in spite of gun control. Therefore, I repeat that every moment's delay in the legal purchase of a handgun does nothing but endanger the would-be buyer. You don't have to take my word for it, though. American police officers, especially those who actually patrol the streets, oppose gun control by an overwhelming majority.

Anyone with enough brass gazongas to be in my house without my permission probably has the brass gazongas to have a gun on him and be willing to use it if need be. The reason a burglar would shoot me if I saw him in my house is: (a) I'm a witness to the fact the he burgled my house and (b) he probably thinks I'm going to try to stop him from stealing my stuff or call the cops or shoot him. Therefore, I should be prepared to respond in kind and meet force with force.

C'mon guys. Give WildBoar a break. Obviously he not only lives in a different country, but another dimension of space and time that we have no awareness of.

There, burglars don't kill anyone, criminals are polite and well-mannered and wouldn't THINK of really hurting anyone, guns have the affect of causing any sane person who touches it to become a crazed killer, tofu and rice cakes are free, and flowers grow out of cement.

Whatever you do, don't step anywhere near that interdimensional transport machine WildBoar...you won't like what you find in our world.

My explanation of burglars:
Obviously there will be some rare cases of burglars shooting people. For the most part though, they will just give up or either run away. Burglars are afraid of people because they don't want to be caught, why do you think most houses are robbed when the people aren't home. Why do you think they rob houses and not mug people, because generally they are not the violent type.

HAHAHAHA, did you know that the Canadian immigration website had its highest traffic ever after the 2004 U.S. election. No doubt Americans are getting tired of seeing reductions in seniors benefits, no health coverage for many people, including children, and all sorts of other bad things that would never happen in country like Canada.

Its funny when I go to places in the U.S., like the Mall of America, and see signs everywhere saying please do not bring guns inside. I can't help but laugh that someone would consider bringing a gun into a mall or store. Seriously, it never crossed my mind to arm myself in public, but clearly down in your country thats a real concern, as business owners are forced to take action on their own against it.

Sure, where do you live. In my city of 120,000 people there were 0 homicides in 2004, there have been 2 this year that I heard of, one guy was beaten to death on a sidewalk and an old lady was stabbed to death in an old folks home.

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"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. " — John Stuart Mill

You are most correct on all counts.

While I was travelling year before last, some local meth heads asked to cut some trees on my parents' property. My mom is very soft hearted and let them do the work, as they had a sad "no presents for the kids before Christmas" story - more like no dope before Christmas. But after they got done, they hung around. And she saw one of them looking in the window of a rear facing room. She loaded the Glock I gave her and called me. I knew who they were (what they were) and called a friend of mine to keep an eye on my parents' house til I got back. When I got home, we went to one of them's house and had a chat with him. I feel it only fair to give a man some heads up on the f'up he's about to make. Now he understands that he's not welcome on their property and if I see him there, he'll get to find out if certain stories about me as a teen are still true. But in Wildbore's fuzzy, happy lil world, my 90 year old dad should have run (the old man will shoot you quicker than I will), and my mom should have opened the window so they could crawl through and carry their stuff out. My parents really are bad about keeping their doors locked, as you never thought about this sort of thing (dope heads and thugs) when they first moved here. As a kid, we often went for drives or shopping and just closed the front door without locking it. Times have changed. But they're old. They forget. But I'm their loyal (twisted) son, so they can do anything they want to. Anything at all. They can leave their doors open. They can leave money in plain sight. And you'd rather try to teach Judaism in Iran than f### with them as long as I'm still breathing. Word is born? Yep.

Again, in Wildbore's make believe world of sugar & sweetness, peaceful, law abiding people like my parents are the problem. In my world, I probably wouldn't shoot a robber unless I figured he'd be too much to take on or he rushed me - though there would likely be no peaceful exit. But to even think about bothering my parents, whether you actually go in their house or not, that means a whole different set of rules... which only I know about (cause I made 'em up ). You need to understand that I wouldn't even consider calling the police. You need to understand that there are things worse than death. You need to understand that once I go on vacation, something unlucky may happen to you. The same kinda thing that enabled my former girlfriend to be able to sunbathe topless in my backyard. Tempting (wasn't she though?!)... but it wasn't worth the pain that would surely follow.

The person who robs, rapes or murders has no respect for himself or other people. It truly sickens me when fluff heads make excuses for this (in)human garbage. Til a kid shows up on a milk carton, Wildbore is willing to bet (with a kid or adult's life) that the intruder is just there to jack some merchandise. Amazing! Pitiful and amazing. Taking guns from the law abiding won't change that. If an unarmed burglar is whacked during a robbery, that just means a $50K/year savings for the taxpayers because he won't be getting 3 hots & a cot in jail = no great loss - still his fault for being where he had NO right to be, doing what he had NO right to be doing. Being stupid sometimes requires a heavy toll to be paid.

Typical of a gun grabber, Wildbore ignores the fact that the police in most major U.S. cities do not focus enough resources on gangs (mostly felons) in illegal possession of firearms. The U.S. government does not focus enough on large scale gun running operations (especially those based out of Israel and the former Soviet states). Slick Willie and Big Foot Reno were even pals with Johnny Chung, while his company, Norinco, was smuggling FULL AUTO AK47's to West Coast street gangs. Typical...

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"Tweeter was a Boyscout before she went to Vietnam and found out the hard way... nobody gives a d@mn."

Nah, just some pinkos running for the border. Same thing happened when Reagan won his second term. A few less tree huggers doesn't change things here one way or the other.

You'd have to point a gun at me to get me to go in that dreadful place.

In a county of about 20K. We haven't had any incidents of people getting beaten to death on our sidewalks or old ladies getting stabbed either. Why are you Canucks so violent???

A friend of mine lived in Switzerland about a decade ago. It blew him away to see a fellow strolling down the street with a light machine gun in tow. I guess I still have the picture he took somewhere. The fellow was going to mandatory range training and they kept their small arms with them. But the Swiss are civilized. They're armed to the teeth (like in my area, but they actually have true hardware), but they don't run around killing each other (again, just like in my area).

For whatever reason, you've chosen to focus on the instrument. A gun is nothing more than a tool. No different than any other device, lethal or nonlethal. Its purpose is decided by the holder. But the instrument itself is not the true problem - I've never heard of a gun walking into a liquor store and robbing anyone. The instrument is not evil. That distinction can only be placed on the heart of the holder of the instrument. Until people like you wake up and focus on the human side of the equation (what causes these people to be the way they are, instead of making pitiful, flimsy excuses for them), people like me will have no problem doing whatever we feel needs t be done to protect our homes and families. You don't like that way of thinking? Then don't break into my house and you'll never have to worry about it.

Folks like you don't have the backbone to go into areas where the illegal guns are, so you'd rather pass laws that would only affect law abiding citizens. IMO, nothing would change, exept you'd feel good about your good deed for the day.

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"Tweeter was a Boyscout before she went to Vietnam and found out the hard way... nobody gives a d@mn."

No ones making excuses for this garbage, but theres a huge difference between robbers, rapists and murderers. Neither have respect for other people, but they are different kind of offenders. The less harsh the crime, such as robbery or burglary, the greater opportunity those people can be reformed and helped. Rapists and sexual offenders are generally harder to reform, but I have a family friend, who messed around with his child daughter a long time ago, he was punished and helped. Now he is successful, his family is like any other, and I treat him like I do any other person. As for murderers, the punishment must be harsh, since a person has been killed; life in prison with paroll in 25 years is a good punishment for most. People have the right to due process, one cannot just call himself judge, jury, and executioner and run off to assault some random man who he has a grudge against.

It appears the only fluff heads are those countless Americans who would take justice into their own hands. Seriously, making up your own nonsense rules and regarding criminals as garbage is a stupidest thing anyone can do. Not only does it undermine the everything society stands for, it shows a lack of respect for authority and the justice system. Respect for the justice system is fundimental in Canada, the police are well liked and will take things seriously.

In Toronto, following this summers crime wave, more prosecuters were hired and 200 more police were recently added to the force, some to the gang unit. Reactionary perhaps, but standing idle while people are dieing is clearly worse.

2 homicides in a year is an extremely low number for a city of 120,000.

Obviously violent crime can occur from many factors, be it social, genetic or a variety of other causes, but this is a gun control forum, the point is to discuss the tool. I will agree that alot of violent crimes are committed with illegal guns, which gun control can do nothing about. Banning some guns, like handguns, is an easy thing to do, same with having harsh punishment for gun offences. Why would we need to enact these simply changes. Well, there is no doubt that there are tons of crimes are committed by law-abiding citizens who just one day decide to murder someone. You cannot say a law-abiding citizen who buys a gun will stay law-abiding for the rest of his life. Handguns are easy to use, available, convient, discreet, deadly, taking them out of the hands of any person is clearly the right thing to do. I have no problems with people having guns for recreational purposes.

I am sure tons of gun lovers will make up an excuse like people won't beable to defend themselves, but clearly the need to prevent even legally purchased guns being involved in a crime somewhere is important enough to justify regulation. Maybe this plan is a complete failure, but it works in Canada and clearly we won't know until the U.S. tries it, which will probably be never, given Americans resistance to change.

Better education, more employment, better wages, access to social services are all things which could be done to curtail crime accross the board. At least I have the backbone to defend those countless Americans who die each year thanks to clearly preventable circumstances. "Nothing would change", thats the excuse for everything these days.

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"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. " — John Stuart Mill

Let's try this. I think it'll work. It works here, so it should work there... even though the variables are not the same and the correlations may not be present. And if it doesn't work, we'll still be able to say we tried.. wasted a chance at success, but we tried. And it'll make us feel good.

Nothing changes when the change has no basis in reason or is heavily opposed. Change does not happen effectively when it is forced. Why? Because most people don't know how, why or when to institute change. I get paid a silly amount of money to change corporate and industrial behaviors. But I don't do what makes me feel good... or what looks good on paper. I have to look at normal, unskewed, untainted, reliable data and develop plans of action THAT CAN BE PROVEN TO WORK. Let's give it a whirl types are the ones who put companies (and coutries) out of business. The U.S. could just as easily be like Switzerland as like Canada. And since Switzerland is a bit higher on the social totem pole than Canada (French-Canadian babes aside), I'd prefer to look more closely at that model. I've been to Canada enough times to know that it has more than a few social problems. Gun crimes affect some here... yes, too many. But I'll challenge you to tell me why another law is needed to prevent a law abiding American from securing arms, when the laws that are present now, to prevent felons from securing arms, aren't being well enough enforced. It worked in Richmond, VA. Why not try that before we charge off into left field and turn decent, average people into criminals?

You've drawn distinctions between robbers, rapists and murderers. Well, I agree with you there. But previously, you suggested that the odds would be in favor of assuming that the person who breaks (or walks) into a house is just there to steal. So, you'd take the chance, and let whatever that's going to happen, just happen - hoping your assumption was correct. Me, I'm not wired that way. Whatever method I chose, I doubt anyone would ever break into my home more than once. With you, they may come back to get another hug. Using the flight or fight concept, you're clearly a person who would take flight. Because you're so wrapped up in the welfare and sad state of some thug, you'd risk that a robber wasn't really a rapist or murderer. I would assume the worst. It would be up to Mr. Robber/Killer/Whatever to make sure he did HIS best to keep me nice & happy. Since it would be impossible to tell what the criminals's intentions were (unless Canadian robbers send greeting cards), just how would you KNOW why this person was there? You wouldn't... but you'd be willing to assume. Interesting. Kill 'em with kindness or be killed because of kindness (toward criminals).

No, I don't particularly care about the welfare of the person who would illegally enter my home. And yes, at that point, the law that matters is my law. I have no particular allegiance to the law of man. The men (and women) who make laws are not special people, or annointed by some higher power. A room full of yutzes put words to paper and the sheep follow the barked orders. I'm not here to fix the world. My main purpose is to look out for me and mine. I've done that rather well and I'll continue to do so. A criminal is nothing more than a parasite on society. It's up to him/her to avoid my shoe.

Again, this sounds nice. But how? You can spend more on eduation, but that doesn't necessarily make it "better". But try? Sure let's try. More employment? OK, but what does that mean? Open a factory in South Central LA? OK, who pays for it and why would anyone put one there? Better wages? Maybe if Delphi wasn't in bankruptcy, they could hire more semi-skilled people and pay them $27/hour. Maybe another "strong" union to keep them from getting fired when they are absent from work or show up drunk/high? Sounds great. I would support anything that made sense. But dreaming up unworkable Santa Claus schemes doesn't feed the bear.

Again, I live in an area of 20K or so. We don't have a robbery, rape or murder problem. We don't have gun control and we do have concealed, as well as public carry laws. If you want to carry a six-shooter on your hip here, you can. But we don't have any of those other problems either. Now you, you don't have a gun crimes problem. But you seem to have some other crime issues - you didn't mention robberies or assaults... and yet, you have gun control. But Canada never had a gun culture to begin with. Replicating our model would seem preferable (for the U.S.). Later we might try to be more like the Swiss. But I see no reason for the people here to want to be like Canada - though I have nothing against that nation.

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"Tweeter was a Boyscout before she went to Vietnam and found out the hard way... nobody gives a d@mn."