View Poll Results: Should the Government Provide Free Universal Health Care for All Americans?

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  • Yes

    41 40.59%
  • No

    60 59.41%
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Thread: Should the Government Provide Free Universal Health Care for All Americans?

  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by constructionguy View Post
    In your case, market failure, as you say, which is pretty broad.
    Not really, public good analysis is provided in detail and studied in depth

    Nobody is addressing the real problems of why healthcare costs so much.
    Efficiency analysis does show that universal health care is cheaper. This partially reflects the economies of scale involved.

    Instead, you are championing a plan to spread out coverage, reduce benefits, and raise the cost. To use your terminolgy, "irrational" at best.
    This is completely wrong. We get a double gain with universal care: an increase in efficiency (see the empirical evidence into efficiency using input-output analysis) and a reduction in the losses associated with market failure.

    Your sole premiss is that those who have should pay for those who have not. Not a winning proposition when you start to run out of those who have.
    My whole premise is based on efficiency criteria. We can of course also add equity concerns, as advertised by amenable mortality rates.

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
    Its funny that our government can supply UHC to 22 million people, but the US governement (which is richer than ours) cannot afford to supply UHC to its people.
    Oh we give free healthcare to people.....illegals. It's only if you are a citizen that they nail you for it.

  3. #93

    Default

    Canadian health care has problems, and its heading into worse problems, but the Canadian govt is open about its system and they are working on the problems.

    Go read real data. It has nothing to do with right wing or left wing politics, or US politics. You have the link (http://www.cihi.ca/), there is no excuse for you to ignore the truth. Try to live up to your name.

    Contrary to this mythical nonsense, Canadians love their health care:

    http://www.openleft.com/diary/14275/...ore-socialized

    "By an overwhelming margin, Canadians prefer the Canadian health care system to the American one. Overall, 82% said they preferred the Canadian system, fully ten times the number who said the American system is superior (8%) ...

    "Considering both cost and patient care factors, a majority of Canadians (55%) think that the health system should be more public, and only 12% think that more of the health system should be private. One in four (27%) believe that the current system strikes the right balance between publicly funded and pay-per-use care. "



    That's right ~ contrary to the Faux network lies that we see posted on this forum, the Truth is that Canadians have a FAR better HC system than we do.

    I'll gladly take it any day over ours. There is no excuse to ignore this Truth.
    Last edited by Mr_Truth; Feb 23 2012 at 04:30 PM.
    Corporations enjoyed their highest profits since 1900 under President Obama ~ why don't the right wing media celebrate this TRUTH?

    November 2012 elections: A victory for America!

  4. #94

    Default

    I noticed that right wingers failed to address the Truth about the fact that 45,000 Americans die every year and that thousands of children have died from RepubliCON health care.


    45,000 means 450,000 in ten years and 900,000 in 20 years.

    Thus, while innocent children and adults die from RepubliCON health care, the right wing rejoices despite calling themselves "pro lifers".

    Such wicked hypocrisy!
    Corporations enjoyed their highest profits since 1900 under President Obama ~ why don't the right wing media celebrate this TRUTH?

    November 2012 elections: A victory for America!

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Truth View Post
    Contrary to this mythical nonsense, Canadians love their health care:

    http://www.openleft.com/diary/14275/...ore-socialized

    "By an overwhelming margin, Canadians prefer the Canadian health care system to the American one. Overall, 82% said they preferred the Canadian system, fully ten times the number who said the American system is superior (8%) ...

    "Considering both cost and patient care factors, a majority of Canadians (55%) think that the health system should be more public, and only 12% think that more of the health system should be private. One in four (27%) believe that the current system strikes the right balance between publicly funded and pay-per-use care. "



    That's right ~ contrary to the Faux network lies that we see posted on this forum, the Truth is that Canadians have a FAR better HC system than we do.

    I'll gladly take it any day over ours. There is no excuse to ignore this Truth.
    Then move to Canada!!

    http://www.nrlc.org/news/2009/NRL05/...ealthCare.html
    The Fraser Institute counts the number of Canadians on waiting lists for medical procedures at 827,429; the median wait time for an MRI is 10.1 weeks. (The U.S. has five times as many MRI machines per capita.) In 2007, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation reported that the waiting period between referral from a family doctor and surgery averaged 18.3 weeks across the provinces, with a high of more than half a year (27.2 weeks) in Saskatchewan, which pioneered Canada’s health care system.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/251988.stm
    http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2...h-care-part-2/

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Truth View Post
    I noticed that right wingers failed to address the Truth about the fact that 45,000 Americans die every year and that thousands of children have died from RepubliCON health care.


    45,000 means 450,000 in ten years and 900,000 in 20 years.

    Thus, while innocent children and adults die from RepubliCON health care, the right wing rejoices despite calling themselves "pro lifers".

    Such wicked hypocrisy!
    Like I said, if you like Canada's health care system so much, move there.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_446481.html

    Danny Williams, Canadian Official, Seeks Heart Surgery In US


    http://blog.heritage.org/2010/02/09/...go-to-america/
    The Canadian Patients’ Remedy for Health Care: Go to America!


    If you want to bring health care down in the U.S. get rid of the Government paperwork that doesn't do us, the ones being treated, any good but costs us about 31% of the medical bill.

  7. #97
    usa
    Location: Places where its ok to have guns and religion and think for myself.
    Posts: 179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Truth View Post
    Contrary to this mythical nonsense, Canadians love their health care:

    http://www.openleft.com/diary/14275/...ore-socialized

    "By an overwhelming margin, Canadians prefer the Canadian health care system to the American one. Overall, 82% said they preferred the Canadian system, fully ten times the number who said the American system is superior (8%) ...

    "Considering both cost and patient care factors, a majority of Canadians (55%) think that the health system should be more public, and only 12% think that more of the health system should be private. One in four (27%) believe that the current system strikes the right balance between publicly funded and pay-per-use care. "

    That's right ~ contrary to the Faux network lies that we see posted on this forum, the Truth is that Canadians have a FAR better HC system than we do.

    I'll gladly take it any day over ours. There is no excuse to ignore this Truth.
    You dodge the issue yet again.

    I am not interested in an unscientific popularity poll.

    I am dealing in facts as reported by the CIHI.

    You obviously know I am right and you are biased and locked in ideology. I know its hard to learn you were a pawn of the socialists. Don't be a useful idiot for the manipulators, join the real truth seekers.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spt5 View Post
    Only the Government can do it. How do you put an insurance model on something that will happen by 100 % certainty, such as geriatric illness and death? Private insurers have no choice but to write people off like writing cars off, or else they must price themselves out of the market.

    So yes, it must be the government. And it can't be a "health care" as we know it, it must be a "managed decline" management system.
    Most people have never studied the insurance industry so they don't comprehend this little fact.

    Good post.

  9. #99

    Default

    The french system works best. A basic government health insurance for everybody with the option of upgrading for extra. While we might see some benefits in health, the primary benefit for doing this is cost. And it's not because of "death panels" that it would be cost-saving, but rather because of reduced overhead (yes, even governments are more efficient than thousands of different insurance companies each with different policies that require providers to hire extra staff to untangle them), and increased purchaser power that drive down costs. We would certainly need to keep politics away from specific decisions though (i.e. how things are covered by the basic plan must be based upon cost-benefit, not which company contributed to your political campaign). And who knows, we might even get drug companies to actually make new drugs instead of combine two existing drugs into one and pretend they're new, because a system that uses a formulary would cover the drugs separately instead of the "new" brand name drug at 1/10 the cost.

    The cost-saving in overhead might sound theoretical, but if you look at America compared to other well-developed countries, the primary difference isn't in health care quality, but rather in health care costs. America pays a lot more for the same services but for a smaller proportion of its citizens. As a result, our businesses have trouble competing in the world market and our citizens suffer.

    It's also a moral issue to me. If we really believe in equal opportunity, the playing field must be as level as possible when it comes to health. No rights can be enjoyed if we are deprived of some basic level of health, and not everybody is at fault for their health conditions. It's really the same principle that applies to the opportunity to get an education, but on an even more basic level.
    Last edited by LiveUninhibited; Feb 24 2012 at 01:07 PM.

  10. #100

    Default

    Why do I tend to think that people that don't want universal healthcare are sociopaths?
    Property is theft. NO GODS, NO MASTERS. AGAINST ALL AUTHORITY. apt-get install anarchism
    Economic Left/Right: -9.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.87

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