Thread: Should the Government Provide Free Universal Health Care for All Americans?

Hey Guys its Jarrod, Today i'll be discussing the topic of Free Universal Health Care. Lately i've been hearing alot on this topic. I realize that like anything else there are Pros and Cons that would come along with National Health Care. Why I think having Universal Health Care would be a good thing are as follows: In recent years health care has become increasingly unaffordable for businesses and individuals alike and with the cost of living increasing daily, some people are being forced to choose between buying Health Insurance or feeding their family. In my opinion people shouldn't be foreced to either pay outragous prices for Health Insurance or having to suffer when your sick because you can't afford the prices these agencies are charging these days. I think you should have the right to diagnosis and treatment if you become ill. Your income shouldn't factor into weather or not you recieve treatment, just because your poor doesn't mean you should suffer. When the topic of Free Universal Health Care was proposed to the government, they responded by saying, "The Budget isnt big enough to cover the expenses we have now". Since 2001 the United States has spent almost $1.3 trillion dollars on stabilizing the Middle East. What I would like to know is, Why is our Government spending that much money making sure the people of Iraq and Afganistan don't kill each other, when there are people right here in the United States that are suffering because they can't afford to go see a doctor when they get sick". I get that they had to hunt down Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein but, if they would of worried about just finding them and getting out of there; instead of helping to stablize their goverment and establish peace, it wouldn't have taken near as long or costed so much money. Also while they were over there, they killed countless United States citizens to stop the killing over there. I think our Government should stop worrying about other country's problems and focus more on whats going on here at home. In my opinion Free Universal Health Care would be one of the best things for this counrty. You've heard what I think now its up to you to decide. With that being said, I leave you to ponder this question, "Should the Government Provide Free Universal Health Care for All Americans?"

Feel Free to Comment, Thanks for Reading, and God Bless America!

To have a system that puts the health care in the hands of private insurance companies is a bit like asking an arms trader to be a peace broker. The two are totally incompatible. When you get sick a private company wants you to either get better very quickly or to die very quickly. Not a good position to be in.

Then there are those who get sick with a long disease and find that their health company pulls the plug on future claims.

Then, finaly there are the huge amount of people that do not have any insurance

Its funny that our government can supply UHC to 22 million people, but the US governement (which is richer than ours) cannot afford to supply UHC to its people.

Sure why not and lets give everyone free food, and housing, and diapers, and tissues for their tears, and where does it end. While I can see a need for some reform in America' health care industry, the government can not provide it for free. Well I guess it could be free if we just make all health care workers slaves and not pay them!

Nothing is free in this world, someone has to pay for services, you just want someone else to pay for that which you do not want to pay for. Its been said here before, a lot of poor people smoke, a pack of cigarettes costs about 5-6 dollars in America, times that by 7 packs a week, 4 weeks a month thats about 150 dollars a month. Or how about a case of beer, 25 dollars times 4 weeks is 100 dollars a month. Basic health insurance can be had for that price in America. Maybe people need to realize how much money they spend on needless things, and realize they could afford what would be beneficial to them.

I understand that some people can not afford insurance they dont buy cigarettes or alcohol, but for those there are government programs ever heard of medicaid. Its all about whats important, most people take for granted their health until they get sick then they cry poverty, maybe you should realize that taking care of yourself is your responsibility.

Nobody says it is free. In the UK you pay National Insurance which is an income tax. In Australia, it comes out of your tax. It isnt free. Also, consider this. The insurers earn billions of dollars of profits based on what you pay for insurance, one insurer alone recently spent $9 billion on advertising! Now, imagine that they did not have to make a profit, imagine that they didnt have to spend all that on advertising. Imagine how much cheaper your insurance would be. That is the case of UHC.

It has nothing to do with cigerettes or alchol or anything else. The USA has a private system, yet the highest rates of obesity related problems in the world. Also, interestingly it is one of the highest countries in the world for womens mortality in child bearth. Actually beaten by several African counties. Maybe we should ask the UN to send field hospitals!

Originally Posted by verystormy

Nobody says it is free. In the UK you pay National Insurance which is an income tax. In Australia, it comes out of your tax. It isnt free. Also, consider this. The insurers earn billions of dollars of profits based on what you pay for insurance, one insurer alone recently spent $9 billion on advertising! Now, imagine that they did not have to make a profit, imagine that they didnt have to spend all that on advertising. Imagine how much cheaper your insurance would be. That is the case of UHC.

It has nothing to do with cigerettes or alchol or anything else. The USA has a private system, yet the highest rates of obesity related problems in the world. Also, interestingly it is one of the highest countries in the world for womens mortality in child bearth. Actually beaten by several African counties. Maybe we should ask the UN to send field hospitals!

Ok then whose fault is it that America has high rates of obesity? Is it the fault of private insurance, is that 9 billion in advertising asking people to go out and over eat? The problem with America is that it is full of people who have no desire to take care of themselves. It is about cigarettes and alcohol and the consumption of fatty sugary unhealthy foods, and all the other stupid behavior. Does private insurance cause diabetes? what about heart disease and lung cancers? Really, most of the issues with Americas health has to do with unhealthy lifestyles.

Besides, I acknowledge that our system is not perfect, but letting the inept American bureaucracy take care of health coverage, sounds scary to me. The American government is inept in everything it tries to do and this includes the military.

Originally Posted by savage-republican

Ok then whose fault is it that America has high rates of obesity? Is it the fault of private insurance, is that 9 billion in advertising asking people to go out and over eat? The problem with America is that it is full of people who have no desire to take care of themselves. It is about cigarettes and alcohol and the consumption of fatty sugary unhealthy foods, and all the other stupid behavior. Does private insurance cause diabetes? what about heart disease and lung cancers? Really, most of the issues with Americas health has to do with unhealthy lifestyles.

My question is, what are Americans going to do when a UHC, because society pays in, gives society the moral right to interfere in those unhealthy lifestyles?

What are Americans going to say when nanny Government starts taxing everything it considers unhealthy, or outright takes it away, because the liberal politicians feel they have the moral duty to protect society's "investment" in your health? Suddenly your body is no longer yours, but part of the social collective and Universal health care puts an unfair burden of responsibility on you to live a lifestyle society, through Government, deems you must.

Besides, I acknowledge that our system is not perfect, but letting the inept American bureaucracy take care of health coverage, sounds scary to me. The American government is inept in everything it tries to do and this includes the military.

Not just scary for incompetence, but scary because America is full of busybody freakazoids who love to control people en masse through political movements. They think the radical Christian Social Cons are the only ones with a controlling streak? No, Liberals can be just as bad if not worse.

They will demand exceedingly high taxes on everything they deem "unhealthy" and boss the rest of us around through hitting our hip pocket, and liberals love to use taxation as a means of social change. They never outlaw anything, they just price out of the range of the average person and suddenly only rich people get privileges that once were available to all Americans before busybodies got involved.

This is how you end up with situations like in Europe where only the rich get to drive cars regularly, where only the rich get to own single family homes outside of the city, etc.

Originally Posted by SiliconMagician

This is how you end up with situations like in Europe where only the rich get to drive cars regularly, where only the rich get to own single family homes outside of the city, etc.

Those things aren't actually remotely true, by the way, certainly in the UK - just thought I'd mention it! Almost everyone has (and regularly uses) a car, and all but the poorest of families generally have more than one (i.e. most adults have their own car, rather than sharing one with family). Most families of lower-middle income or higher own their own single occupancy homes, and most poorer fmilies live in single occupancy rented accomodation.

Originally Posted by SiliconMagician

What are Americans going to say when nanny Government starts taxing everything it considers unhealthy, or outright takes it away, because the liberal politicians feel they have the moral duty to protect society's "investment" in your health? Suddenly your body is no longer yours, but part of the social collective and Universal health care puts an unfair burden of responsibility on you to live a lifestyle society, through Government, deems you must.

Taxing unhealthy things at a higher level to contribute towards the higher costs of dealing with the healthcare issues of those who choose to live in an healthy way seems fair enough to me, and the 'banning' thing is pretty much a myth - it doesn't actually happen in practise.

There is another point here, though:

Originally Posted by savage-republican

Ok then whose fault is it that America has high rates of obesity? Is it the fault of private insurance, is that 9 billion in advertising asking people to go out and over eat? The problem with America is that it is full of people who have no desire to take care of themselves. It is about cigarettes and alcohol and the consumption of fatty sugary unhealthy foods, and all the other stupid behavior.

There is a cultural issue in the US, that of the sheer level of 'consumerism at all costs', that may prevent genuine UHC from being possible there (certainly in terms of public opinion). That's what makes the whole thing a matter for the US people to decide for themselves, of course.

If the attachment to total consumerism (without the unpleasantness of hearing regularly that the lifestyle they are living might not be good for them, and without having to pay some higher tax levels on some of the least healthy things to pay towards the costs of healthcare to deal with the consequences) is so unbreakable that people prepared to cut of their noses to spite their faces, in terms of living entirely unhealthy lives without care or cost, while suffering under a health care system that has some very serious flaws in coverage terms which may ultimately effect those who live such unhealthy lifestyles the hardest (pre-existing conditions being a particular one), then UHC is just not going to happen.

As with in all these discussions, I'm going to make it clear that it isn't my place to tell the US what to decide, whatever my opinions, but I will also point out that the important thing is to have an open and honset debate, without the silly scare stories and blatant untruths about what the real picture is in those countries that already have some form of UHC system well embedded.

The key question, though, obviously isn't really about 'What is the best way of doing things?', but 'What are Americans going to say...?'. They have to decide, and that is fair enough, but they should have the real options, with all of their real advantages and disadvantages, placed before them in an honest and straightforward manner.

Originally Posted by cenydd

Taxing unhealthy things at a higher level to contribute towards the higher costs of dealing with the healthcare issues of those who choose to live in an healthy way seems fair enough to me, and the 'banning' thing is pretty much a myth - it doesn't actually happen in practise.

There is another point here, though:

There is a cultural issue in the US, that of the sheer level of 'consumerism at all costs', that may prevent genuine UHC from being possible there (certainly in terms of public opinion). That's what makes the whole thing a matter for the US people to decide for themselves, of course.

If the attachment to total consumerism (without the unpleasantness of hearing regularly that the lifestyle they are living might not be good for them, and without having to pay some higher tax levels on some of the least healthy things to pay towards the costs of healthcare to deal with the consequences) is so unbreakable that people prepared to cut of their noses to spite their faces, in terms of living entirely unhealthy lives without care or cost, while suffering under a health care system that has some very serious flaws in coverage terms which may ultimately effect those who live such unhealthy lifestyles the hardest (pre-existing conditions being a particular one), then UHC is just not going to happen.

As with in all these discussions, I'm going to make it clear that it isn't my place to tell the US what to decide, whatever my opinions, but I will also point out that the important thing is to have an open and honset debate, without the silly scare stories and blatant untruths about what the real picture is in those countries that already have some form of UHC system well embedded.

The key question, though, obviously isn't really about 'What is the best way of doing things?', but 'What are Americans going to say...?'. They have to decide, and that is fair enough, but they should have the real options, with all of their real advantages and disadvantages, placed before them in an honest and straightforward manner.

I never did understand the cultural disconnect over taxation and Government interference between Europe and the USA.

I mean, one of the primary casus bellis of the Revolutionary War was punitive taxation:

The Stamp Act 1765 (short title Duties in American Colonies Act 1765; 5 George III, c. 12) was a direct tax imposed by the British Parliament specifically on the colonies of British America. The act required that many printed materials in the colonies be produced on stamped paper produced in London, carrying an embossed revenue stamp.

These taxes were designed specifically to punish certain behaviors through hitting the hip pocket and force obedience.

It is, IMO, evil to force social change. It is, IMO, wholly tyrannical to use taxation as a means of encouraging "positive" behaviors. Merely on principle! A principle passed down over 223 years of American history.

Taxation is a necessary evil that should be kept to a minimum and never, ever used to force compliance or change social behavior!