First of all, great posts Logan. I would however like to add to the mix some points. The Fraser Institute keeps track of Canada's socialized health-care system. In its 13th annual waiting-list survey, it shows that the average time a patient waited between referral from a general practitioner to treatment rose from 16.5 weeks in 2001-02 to 17.7 weeks in 2003. Saskatchewan had the longest average waiting time of nearly 30 weeks, while Ontario had the shortest, 14 weeks.

The Ontario act makes it illegal to pay your way to the front of the line to insure no one can avoid the line.

Now think a minute. Do you like this act or not? If you do, then you are focusing on the wrong problem. The problem is not that it is unfair that some, because of their financial well-being, are able to jump ahead of the line, but the line itself.


Where is the solidity in the mentality that when suffering exists and some can escape it, the playing field must be leveled in favor of equal pain and anguish?

Is it humanitarian to allow people to suffer for half a year weeks before treatment? Is it right to deem illegal attempts to alleviate the pain and suffering of loved ones by spending your own money? Simple answer... NO

well, personally i think that the reason the police and fire services should be paid for by public taxes is because they deal with problems that affect society as a whole. a single fire, for example, can destroy thousands of acres. a string of burglaries can ruin the lives of many people. healthcare, on the other hand, must deal with people on a person by person basis. in doing so, i think that a privatized healthcare system would be better suited than a monopolized government run program. afterall, more competition means lower prices.
-j

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Я капиталист, конечно!

If you know any doctors or pharmacists, ask them about billing government agencies such as Medicare or Medicaid. Its a train wreck.

Check the Internet for stories about hospitals, doctors and home health agencies suing Medicare for nonpayment or underpayment. I can even reference a court case where Medicare is trying to supplant the doctor's right to determine medical necessity in prescribing treatment and place it in the hands of a government bureaucrat who has never met the patient. When you are sick and need treatment, do you really want some bureaucrat to have the right to overrule your doctor about the medical necessity of one form of treatment or another?

I also contend that if you funneled all of these resources through the government instead of through businesses that can be benchmarked by a profit motive, then you will have a much larger percentage of the overall resources for health-care going to administrative costs. Also, the increased administrative burden on the part of health-care providers (increased overhead) coupled with the lower reimbursements will seriously impair the profits of pharmacists and doctors. Over time, this will lead to fewer talented people entering these fields. While a lot of government jobs will be created, they will be created at a terrible price to the public.

While you intentions are obviously noble, I think another government bureaucracy will harm more people than it helps.

how about pragmatism... Or maybe efficiency....

People took the time to fully understand a process before they made suggestions that would potentially hurt more people than they helped.

I do not mean to take a shot at Pixie. She has the best of intentions.

Still, its insane for any of us to talk in such general terms about making major policy changes in something as complex as healthcare. I mean, if anyone really cared enough about healthcare to really have an informed opinion, then they would probably be starting threads down below in the healthcare section.

I'm not a she for a start. Hurt more people than it harmed? Raising taxes would irritate people yes, but then you'd have free health care. It would hurt some people some years and benefit them others. But it would benefit more people than it didn't because more money would be plowed into the health service. Why? Private company's have churn out a profit, government company's don't. It also gives you a say in how you want your health care run. At the moment you have no control about what happens with the health service. If they decided to have more beds and less nurses you couldn't say no. If however it was government owned you could say NO! i want more nurses and less beds.
Lets say a speeding car hits a woman in the street and the police never find the driver. She has to pay to have her broken legs mended because of something that was entirely out of her hands.
Why should someone who is less ill be granted faster and better treatment just because they have more money? Because of private health care.

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What's this i hear bed? Word has it you and Pam are sleeping together.

actually, pixie, technically if you raise the taxes to pay for healthcare, it wouldn't be free. and as for your claim of privatized healthcare not giving you a say in how your healthcare is run, you couldn't be more wrong. the fact that these companies are looking for a profit means that they will do anything to keep you as a customer. if you don't like the way it is being handled, you will be free to choose a different provider, unlike the government monopoly which is currently in place. companies do not like to loose customers, so they will tailor themselves to fit your needs. as more companies come into play, the competition will cause the price to fall and the quality to increase.
-j

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Я капиталист, конечно!

Maybe it isn't their fault that they're sick more often. Should you get to pay less because you're more fortunate than they are?

It's ultimately a matter of how society wishes to handle its less fortunate. If it's going to be "every man for himself", as you seem to advocate, well then you'd just better hope to God you've got everything you need, hadn't you? God help you if you should happen to lose your job and have a brain aneurysm in the same year. These things can happen to anyone, believe it or not.

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"The basic problems facing the world today are not susceptible to a military solution."

- JFK

Great Post!

You can't repute this argument. If your motivations are that you want people to get treatment when they get sick then you want private healthcare.

I don't trust the government to pick up my trash let alone practice medicine. look! if you want to know how social health care would be look at the mess Canada's health care is in.

if you're not convinced read this post again from the to and let it sink in a bit.

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This is our time to get it done!!