Health Care---Just the facts!

Dante. · #1 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 11:11 PM

These capitalist countries don't trust health care entirely to the free market.

Quote:

Sen. JOHN MCCAIN (AZ), Republican Presidential Candidate: The solution, my friends, isn't a one-size-fits-all big government takeover of health care.

T.R. REID: What I've found is that it's not all "socialized medicine" out there. Many countries provide universal coverage with private insurance, private doctors, private hospitals, using market ideas that might work for us.

But here's the thing. These capitalist countries don't trust health care entirely to the free market. They all impose limits.

There are three big ones. First, insurance companies must accept everyone and can't make a profit on basic care. Second, everybody's mandated to buy insurance, and the government pays the premium for the poor. Third, doctors and hospitals have to accept one standard set of fixed prices.

Can Americans accept ideas like that?

Well, the fact is these foreign health care ideas aren't really so foreign to us. For American veterans, health care is just like Britain's NHS. For seniors on Medicare, we're Taiwan. For working Americans with insurance, we're Germany. And for the tens of million without health insurance, we're just another poor country.

But almost all of us can agree that this fragmented health care mess cannot be ignored. The longer we leave it, the sicker it becomes, and the more expensive the cure.

SICK AROUND THE WORLD

PRODUCED AND DIRECTED BY
Jon Palfreman

WRITTEN BY
Jon Palfreman and T.R. Reid

Dante. · #2 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 11:18 PM

How many people in Switzerland go bankrupt because of medical bills?

Pres. PASCAL COUCHEPIN: Nobody. It doesn't happen. It would be a huge scandal if it happens.

Quote:

T.R. REID: But I wondered about LAMal's impact on drug and insurance companies. Pierre Marcel Revaz is CEO of Groupe Mutuel, one of Switzerland's biggest insurance companies. What's different here is that many Swiss insurers were already non-profit, so the transformation was easier than it might be for us. Ten years on, the insurers are doing fine. As in Germany, a lack of profit has not meant a lack of competition.

PIERRE-MARCEL REVAZ, CEO, Groupe Mutuel: [subtitles] It's very competitive because each company wants to keep its old customers and get new clients. So there's extreme competition for service and price.

T.R. REID: The benefit package here is fixed -- it's the same for everybody -- so companies compete in other ways.

[on camera] Is this one of the ways you compete with other companies? You say, "We'll pay faster"?

PIERRE-MARCEL REVAZ: [subtitles] Yes, it's one of the elements of competition, but the main one is the price.

T.R. REID: [voice-over] Groupe Mutuel has a strong incentive to keep administrative costs low.

PIERRE-MARCEL REVAZ: [subtitles] Our administrative costs are 5.5. percent, so we're performing well.

T.R. REID: Do you know what that figure is in American health insurance companies? The average administrative cost is about 22 percent, and you're running at 5 percent.

[voice-over] But where the Swiss insurance companies can make a profit is on supplemental coverage for, say, better hospital rooms. This is also how they attract more customers. But what about the drug companies?

[on camera] In America, the drug companies say, "Well, if you cut the price we get for the drugs, then we won't have as much money for research and innovation." Is that a legitimate argument?

RUTH DREIFUSS: It was the same argument here in Switzerland.

T.R. REID: I'm sure.

RUTH DREIFUSS: But I can say also that the Swiss pharmaceutical industry 10 years after this struggle is not bad. In the international competition, I think the Swiss are still belonging to the top 10. And when you hear them, they are not crying about the bad shape of their industry.

T.R. REID: [voice-over] That may be because Swiss drug companies still make more than a third of their profits from the less-regulated U.S. market.

[on camera] One of the problems we have in America is that many people -- it's a huge number of people -- go bankrupt because of medical bills. Some studies say 700,000 people a year. How many people in Switzerland go bankrupt because of medical bills?

Pres. PASCAL COUCHEPIN: Nobody. It doesn't happen. It would be a huge scandal if it happens.

T.R. REID: [voice-over] But here's Switzerland's challenge. Having achieved universal health care, it has to decide how much citizens are willing to pay. Today, an average monthly premium for a Swiss family is about $750. But there's pressure to raise the premiums. And it's already the second most expensive health care system in the world, although still much cheaper than ours.

[www.pbs.org: Compare these countries' systems]

What's interesting about Switzerland is that after LAMal's success, people in this proud capitalist country see limits now to the free market.

[on camera] Could a 100 percent free market system work in health care?

Dante. · #3 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 06:48 AM

The solution to the health care crisis(?) in America will have to include some sort of mandates.

god bless her honesty

SuperDinoYoshi · #4 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 11:24 AM

That's absurd, mandates are what has made health insurance as expensive as it is today.

The free market is how we get the best cars, best computers, best food, best power, if we want success in Health Care and Education, the free market has to be used.

Socialism and its not-so-distant cousin Communism have been shown time and time again to not work to the people's best interests, why do you think it will work this time?

DanteAugustusGermanicus · #5 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDinoYoshi

That's absurd, mandates are what has made health insurance as expensive as it is today.

The free market is how we get the best cars, best computers, best food, best power, if we want success in Health Care and Education, the free market has to be used.

Socialism and its not-so-distant cousin Communism have been shown time and time again to not work to the people's best interests, why do you think it will work this time?

health care is not a commodity. If you saw the program or read the transcript you'd know that not all nations have the same way of approaching health care costs but all are struggling. a few are more satisfied than we are and they have pretty decent health care.

health care is not a commodity.

health care is not a commodity.

health care is not a commodity.

DanteAugustusGermanicus · #6 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheChief

Is this another loophole that shows how the left wishes to destroy the planet? They want to give everybody drugs while denying there right to self defence AND placing in universal healthcare.. Thats a clear recipe for disaster..

the left? what is it with the attraction of straw men?

drugs and guns are worlds apart. and health care? I put a link for a pretty good source that looked at health care in a few nations.

Foolosophy · #7 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 11:34 PM

Most of the CIVILISED caring societies around the world have universal health care systems that manage to treat the sck with respect - regardless of their ability to pay.

But then again the KEY WORDS HERE are CIVILISED and CARING.

SATAn

BLESS

AMERICA

DanteAugustusGermanicus · #8 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foolosophy

Most of the CIVILISED caring societies around the world have universal health care systems that manage to treat the sck with respect - regardless of their ability to pay.

But then again the KEY WORDS HERE are CIVILISED and CARING.

SATAn

BLESS

AMERICA

funny thing is if you read the link or saw the video....those other countries do it for less money too.

fiscal conservatives should be all over this one, but since Ronald Reagan, conservatives have supersized their principles.

SuperDinoYoshi · #9 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foolosophy

Most of the CIVILISED caring societies around the world have universal health care systems that manage to treat the sck with respect - regardless of their ability to pay.

That works out great, except for the people who die waiting for health-care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foolosophy

SATAn

BLESS

AMERICA

Then where will the sick Canadian's go?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanteAugustusGermanicus

health care is not a commodity. If you saw the program or read the transcript you'd know that not all nations have the same way of approaching health care costs but all are struggling. a few are more satisfied than we are and they have pretty decent health care.

You act like I didn't peruse it at all. The fact of the matter is, these systems don't meet their nations demand. Does that mean that those nations are composed of cold uncaring evil demons? No. When the government takes over a system, they create a government powered monopoly. All motives that make health-care better are taken away. In the proposed HillaryCare, you were forced to go to the given hospital assigned to where you live, you couldn't go where you felt had the best doctors and care, so why would any hospital try to be better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foolosophy

health care is not a commodity.
health care is not a commodity.
health care is not a commodity.

Giving it out doesn't necessarily mean the nation will be better off.

If all these other countries do it so much better, how come:

1. When people get sick they come here?
2. Our nation does the most health care research?

I'm sure my reputation will be slaughtered for this, but...

20/20 "Sick in America"

The video is cut into 6 pieces, so if you are interested, you can just watch a part or two and watch more later.

I think this video describes some pretty feasible solutions, and more accuratley describes the problems in health care, not enough free market.

DanteAugustusGermanicus · #10 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDinoYoshi

You act like I didn't peruse it at all. The fact of the matter is, these systems don't meet their nations demand. Does that mean that those nations are composed of cold uncaring evil demons? No. When the government takes over a system, they create a government powered monopoly. All motives that make health-care better are taken away. In the proposed HillaryCare, you were forced to go to the given hospital assigned to where you live, you couldn't go where you felt had the best doctors and care, so why would any hospital try to be better?

The governments in the program I saw did not take over the health care industry and make it a monopoly. They took over regulation of payments...health insurance. Even if any took over health care in a broad sense, they all mostly have competition. Why is that?

Most are happy with their health care? Why is that?

One nation was unhappy and went public...and the leaders of the doom and gloom nay sayers are now happy they were wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDinoYoshi

Giving it out doesn't necessarily mean the nation will be better off.

If all these other countries do it so much better, how come:

1. When people get sick they come here?
2. Our nation does the most health care research?

1. People from all over the US come to my state for health care. So what does that say? Who comes here and why? specialty care. would that die out? watch the video.

2. Our nation? You mean our tax dollars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDinoYoshi

I'm sure my reputation will be slaughtered for this, but...

20/20 "Sick in America"

The video is cut into 6 pieces, so if you are interested, you can just watch a part or two and watch more later.

I think this video describes some pretty feasible solutions, and more accuratley describes the problems in health care, not enough free market.

without even looking I think you are linking to a youtube if the video I link to. why? the address.

what is it with some people and youtube? for subjects like this the original is usually better quality and such. don't you search things out? or are you one of those who has your prejudices validated and seeks no further?

----------
I checked...it's my reputation that is damaged here.

OMFG!!!!!! that idiot! he has an agenda. gosh! I give you a link to a credible and unbiased program and you give me a link from a guy who puts together (cut & splice) videos for ratings on a major network newsinfo/bs show?

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