Here's the Health care bill (HR 3962) - Page 10

shpraralain · #91 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drpepper

If this IS the Bill, then were the tea baggers lying when they said hey read it 2 months ago?

Please give me a link showing that my fellow citizens lied. I do not live in SF, therefor I do not know any teabaggers. Nice try.

Taxpayer · #92 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Never Left

That is precisly the apathy and uncommited thinking that the leftist losers are counting on to get this thging through.

...

So to say that the first two points are ambiguous and unclear is just the response that these leftists want you to have, while all the while the ruination of you life because you are forced to abandon all choices to a government breaucracy and are at the mercy of these assclowns.

I'm not saying the first two points the OP made are ambiguous. Pretty sure I used the phrase "misleading or false." After reviewing them again, I'll add to that: "intentionally misleading or false."

I have every intention of watching the health care legislation develop, I share many of your concerns, and I'm willing to give folks a chance to make a case for or against each part of it. Even gave this guy a second chance. But no, if someone is trying to stampede me--in either direction--they don't merit a third chance.

Never Left · #93 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taxpayer

I'm not saying the first two points the OP made are ambiguous. Pretty sure I used the phrase "misleading or false." After reviewing them again, I'll add to that: "intentionally misleading or false."

I have every intention of watching the health care legislation develop, I share many of your concerns, and I'm willing to give folks a chance to make a case for or against each part of it. Even gave this guy a second chance. But no, if someone is trying to stampede me--in either direction--they don't merit a third chance.

All I am suggesting is that you consider carefully what it says and what all the crossreferencing to other legislation means and how it will aply. They are calling this a "comprohensive health care bill" How is that true if they are going to other bills as clarification of this bill. To me that is a set up that has been building up to this, and hideing the ball and their true intentions and goals. I do not trust Chairman Obama or any of the leftist leadership in the senate and the house, because I believe with good reason that they are American hating leftists. To that point I submit Obama's oft repeated campaign slogan, "fundamental change" for America. What exactly does that mean? It means seperating you and I from our liberty and freedom, and making a European socialist country out of us. My ancestors left Europe in the 17th century because it sucked in Europe and it still does.

shpraralain · #94 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drpepper

So the teabaggers LIED when they said they read the bill 2 months ago.

Thanks for playing.

Well, I guess you must play with yourself then. Another one on my ignore list.

SenaxFlatulus · #95 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drpepper

So, all the nuts who claimed to have read the bill 2 months ago at the staged "town hall" meetings were liars?

You even have "Fake tan" Boehner admitting this is the first bill yesterday.

The previous attempts at cobbling together a bill are included in this one... if you cared to read the about history of the bill at all. There were previous attempts at a bill. Perhaps that was what you're alluding to.

SenaxFlatulus · #96 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 06:17 PM

Read this first

The above link is a list of the tax increases included in the bill. While the Democrats will tell us that it's primarily taxes on businesses and not on us to bear the brunt of the tax burden, what do they have to offer us when those businesses pass their burden onto their consumers via higher prices for their goods and services?

Or, what about the job layoffs those businesses will implement to bring down overhead expenses?

Americans for Tax Reform have posted on their website no less than 13 new taxes for us to "enjoy." It's referenced to the page numbers of the bill for you to cross check for yourself.

Quote:

Employer Mandate Excise Tax (Page 275): If an employer does not pay 72.5 percent of a single employee’s health premium (65 percent of a family employee), the employer must pay an excise tax equal to 8 percent of average wages. Small employers (measured by payroll size) have smaller payroll tax rates of 0 percent (<$500,000), 2 percent ($500,000-$585,000), 4 percent ($585,000-$670,000), and 6 percent ($670,000-$750,000).

Individual Mandate Surtax (Page 296): If an individual fails to obtain qualifying coverage, he must pay an income surtax equal to the lesser of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) or the average premium. MAGI adds back in the foreign earned income exclusion and municipal bond interest.

Medicine Cabinet Tax (Page 324): Non-prescription medications would no longer be able to be purchased from health savings accounts (HSAs), flexible spending accounts (FSAs), or health reimbursement arrangements (HRAs). Insulin excepted.

Cap on FSAs (Page 325): FSAs would face an annual cap of $2500 (currently uncapped).

Increased Additional Tax on Non-Qualified HSA Distributions (Page 326): Non-qualified distributions from HSAs would face an additional tax of 20 percent (current law is 10 percent). This disadvantages HSAs relative to other tax-free accounts (e.g. IRAs, 401(k)s, 529 plans, etc.)

Denial of Tax Deduction for Employer Health Plans Coordinating with Medicare Part D (Page 327): This would further erode private sector participation in delivery of Medicare services.

Surtax on Individuals and Small Businesses (Page 336): Imposes an income surtax of 5.4 percent on MAGI over $500,000 ($1 million married filing jointly). MAGI adds back in the itemized deduction for margin loan interest. This would raise the top marginal tax rate in 2011 from 39.6 percent under current law to 45 percent—a new effective top rate.

Excise Tax on Medical Devices (Page 339): Imposes a new excise tax on medical device manufacturers equal to 2.5 percent of the wholesale price. It excludes retail sales and unspecified medical devices sold to the general public.

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting (Page 344): Requires that 1099-MISC forms be issued to corporations as well as persons for trade or business payments. Current law limits to just persons for small business compliance complexity reasons. Also expands reporting to exchanges of property.

Delay in Worldwide Allocation of Interest (Page 345): Delays for nine years the worldwide allocation of interest, a corporate tax relief provision from the American Jobs Creation Act

Limitation on Tax Treaty Benefits for Certain Payments (Page 346): Increases taxes on U.S. employers with overseas operations looking to avoid double taxation of earnings.

Codification of the “Economic Substance Doctrine” (Page 349): Empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction or other tax relief merely because the IRS deems that the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business-related.

Application of “More Likely Than Not” Rule (Page 357): Publicly-traded partnerships and corporations with annual gross receipts in excess of $100 million have raised standards on penalties. If there is a tax underpayment by these taxpayers, they must be able to prove that the estimated tax paid would have more likely than not been sufficient to cover final tax liability.

Taxpayer · #97 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenaxFlatulus

Individual Mandate Surtax (Page 296): If an individual fails to obtain qualifying coverage, he must pay an income surtax equal to the lesser of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) or the average premium. MAGI adds back in the foreign earned income exclusion and municipal bond interest.

This keeps coming up, I don't get it. How are we improving health insurance by passing a law that says you have to buy it?

The problem with health care in this country is not who has to pay for it, or how do we force one group or the other to pay for it, but why is it so darn expensive?

Jiyuu-Freedom · #98 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alarion

It was the right who (*)(*)(*)(*) all over the constitution for the last 8 years yet it's the left who are America hating?

el oh (*)(*)(*)(*)ing el.

More bias please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Never Left
How is it that you do not understand that it is government control of benefits and coverage, niether is free market. It is government control, their control is the problem. It will cost more because of it breaucracy and over management. Real insurence companies will not be able to compete, and then the real of the government plan costs will soar, when trhey have illiminated the competition. That is the way it always is when the government becomes involved. Plus that was an anylisis of the over all package. And I will not pretend to understand the legal language and trust that those who do will say what it really says and trust them. I know for a fact that I do not trust the American hating leftist losers who wrote this monstrosity

You're right on spot NL. This isn't biased either. Why is it that liberals cannot understand that whether the choice is there's for the choosing, it's still big daddy government under the guise of Obama?

And what does the last 8 years, the republicans and our constitution have to do with this bill?

SenaxFlatulus · #99 (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 08:01 PM

So Obama says it will cost $900 billion. Nancy Pelosi says it will only cost $894 billion and her spokesperson says, "It will not add one dime to the deficit. In fact, the CBO said last week that it will reduce the deficit both in the first 10 years and in the second 10 years,"

Must be that complicated new math I was never good at.

Quote:

The health care bill headed for a vote in the House this week costs $1.2 trillion or more over a decade, according to numerous Democratic officials and figures contained in an analysis by congressional budget experts, far higher than the $900 billion cited by President Barack Obama as a price tag for his reform plan.

Source

apashack · #**100** (**permalink**) 11-02-2009, 08:11 PM

Regardless of you opinion on the healthcare bill something needs to be done about cost and access to insurance to each of us. If you ever find yourself without insurance as I am you may understand why some Americans want something to change.

I’m a 50 year old self employed male in what I believe to be good health. This is based on a physical I got about 2 months ago. You would think I could get health insurance. Well I can’t. I have been turned down by United Health Care as well as Blue Cross Blue Shield for preexisting conditions in the past month. Those so called conditions are bogus. For example: 3 years ago I was having abdominal pains and went to a Urgent Care Clinic. It was a snowy day and the staff was limited. The doctor diagnosed me with kidney stones. He told me to go home a drink lots of fluids and see if it would pass. He also told me that he couldn’t confirm that I had kidney stones because his x-ray technician was out due to the snow. In other words, my having kidney stones was never verified. The pain went away in 2 days with no treatment what so ever. But now I am tagged for life as having kidney stones. Is this really fair?

Example #2: I am currently on an antidepressant because I am dealing with a 88 year old dieing mother as well as two unemployed children. Am I depressed? Yes, however I’ve only been on meds for 3 months and fully expect the depression to take care of itself in time.

Bottom line is I was turned down for healthcare coverage for those two reasons.

I don’t have all the answers for healthcare but I can assure you that something needs to be done. Being turned down for these reasons in just BS.

I hope the healthcare bill passes personally.

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