Civilized would be, not living under tyranny I guess. The bible is a good source on cultures 6,000 years ago around the Babylonian and Sumarian times. And their cultures were not civilized, but very brutal and militaristic. The Greeks were brutal too, but at least they didn't drink the blood of their their enemies wive's fetuses. Some of the stuff was pretty brutal, Im exadurating, so chill.

You can't get over your Egyptian hump. You think you got me cornered, but like a lawyer-Democrat-Pharisee's you look for loopholes in anything anyone says. I didn't mention Egypt because I wasn't thinking about it at the time.

You act like a Democrat, maybe you should register as one. Coming from someone who thinks Hammurabi Code was great *rolls eyes*, have you ever read it Mr. Barbarian Heathen? Or did you read some pinheaded intellectual's praise of it.

Righty

mmmm, where do I start. First of all, I thought we where having a discussion, so I did not look for loopholes, or try to catch you out. I mentioned Egypt, you agree it was a great civilization, so that's it then, you forgot to mention it, that's fine. No problem.

Secondly, I did not say Hammurabi's law was great, I said it had some wonderful laws in it, and I stand by that point. And yes, to answer your question, I have read it, what remains of it, myself.

Then, Righty, it must be wonderful to live in your world - everyone fit's into nice little holes, nice little categories. unfortunately, the real world does not function like this. I am no democrat, since, for one, I am not American. I quite often disagree with things Democrat governments in the White House does (but yes, a less than what I disagree with what your current government does). So, I do not fit into your little 'evil godless democrat terrorist' hole. Sorry about that.

And here is something from my heart, Righty. I grew up in a country ruled by Righties like you. For 45 years they ruled this country by the principles you spread here. You keep saying I fell for the liberal propaganda - I grew up being brainwashed by the Rightwing propaganda - our television, school textbooks, even childrens programs, designed to make us follow those principals. And, I am white, so I was the one reaping the so called benefits from this regime. And I can tell you, in all honesty, it was hell. I would never want to live in such a place again.

You can come and visit if you want (if you can bring yourself to come to such a backwater place, that is). After 14 years, things are better, but there is still enough left of the old ways, so that I can show you, what happens when the Righties of the world, rule a country.

I guess you will reply by calling me names again, telling me how I fell for the Dem's terrorist propaganda, and even throw that old favorite of yours -'I know I am, but what are you', and that is fine, if that is what your heart is full of, that is ok. I am just telling you something from my heart. No name calling, no nothing.

Thank you for listening.

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“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
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Guns, Germs, and Steel as far s 've seen is the single best account of how Europe got to be so powerful. It did so mostly off of ideas and agriculture imported from the Middle East and Asia through trade and war and occasionally accidents of nature (carried agriculture leaving seeds that mutated to the climate). But I think Righty's insights into how tactics might have played into it are interesting.
I might add though that for the most part islands have never really been all that good for the advancement of civilization. They might be good for tactical warfare, but they suck for a lot of other things. If not for the Roman empire, Britain would have gone nowhere...
But note how Britain took off once the large ship was invented in more modern times, making up for its disadvantages in trade. But the ships themselves required a foundation of knowledge from other cultures and over the course of time.

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"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

Europe became great via the Middle Ages, when the Catholic Church rebuilt it and transformed its masses (post-Roman Empire AND barbarians) into God's New Chosen People. CHRISTIANITY, mixed with a collective, higher intelligence, created the most advanced civilization on Earth, armed with the mission to unite Mankind under Christ and Western progress.

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Kick'm in the frig'n nuts.

If your going to go all elitist on me, then save yourself the time and effort and just say, "Go back to your trailer." or something like that. Boy, that was sure wordy for an insult. You work too hard.

But the simple fact remains that the borders of the, "Important, Stable" nations on earth are drawn on military chokepoints.

When ships are expensive to produce and the most advanced weapon you have in your arsenal are single-wood bows and shortswords, then living on an island is your best option. Not only is the mainland of Greece a peninsula with hilly-chokepoints gallore, it is surrounded by many tiny, small, and medium sized islands. Wether the Greek city-states consolidated or not, trade would have flourished anyways.

God chose the Jews to be an example to the Gentiles of what to do, and what not to do. We are not the New Chosen people. I, for one, do not want to be used as an example of what to do, and what not to do, and be scrutinized as a culture more closely by God. If you feared God one bit, neither would you.

Self-Glorifying Julius Caesar (Democrat with military experience)

And both Aquitainee and Gaul are seperated by the Spanish by the Pyrannes mountains, a far more effective chokepoint then rivers.

So all non-democracies are uncivilized?

Not that I necessarily disagree. I am trying to determine your criteria. The Romans would have been uncivilized by your criteria...as would pre-revolution France and Britain.

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