Thread: TheMuslim rule of Spain?the most secular liberal state in Europe or apartheid regime?

Originally Posted by Flag

Age of discoveries werent just America.
When Colombus got there the portuguese were already settling in Africa. In fact Colombus tried to get support from the portuguese king John II.

Back to the muslim rule again.

In Muslim Spain Jews joined Muslim guilds or formed their own.. That was unheard of in Europe.

Originally Posted by litwin

and they went far much deeper and longer then Arabs did whole the way form Lisbon to Calcutta

I know. Madness.

Originally Posted by Margot

In Muslim Spain Jews joined Muslim guilds or formed their own.. That was unheard of in Europe.

Christians were treated better under muslim rule than jews were treated under christian rule.
christians were allowed to be christian, and they lived peacefully with muslims when christians took over under the first portuguese king muslims and jews were granted their guilds and lived with equal rights than everyone else, then under the following kings they were forced to convert or face punishment.

Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain

there you go..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_...lture_in_Spain

Birth of the Golden Age

''After 681, the Christian Visigoths of Hispania persecuted the Jews severely; therefore, the Jews welcomed the Muslim Arab and mainly Berber conquerors in the 8th century. The conquered cities of Córdoba, Málaga, Granada, Seville, and Toledo were briefly placed under the control of the Jewish inhabitants, who had been armed by the Moorish invaders. The victors removed the Christian Visigoths' oppressive restrictions and granted the Jews full religious liberty''

End of the Golden Age

''The major Jewish presence in Iberia continued until the Jews were forcibly expelled en masse due to the edict of expulsion by Christian Spain in 1492 and a similar decree by Christian Portugal in 1497''

nuff said..

Originally Posted by m81

Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain

there you go..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_...lture_in_Spain

Birth of the Golden Age

''After 681, the Christian Visigoths of Hispania persecuted the Jews severely; therefore, the Jews welcomed the Muslim Arab and mainly Berber conquerors in the 8th century. The conquered cities of Córdoba, Málaga, Granada, Seville, and Toledo were briefly placed under the control of the Jewish inhabitants, who had been armed by the Moorish invaders. The victors removed the Christian Visigoths' oppressive restrictions and granted the Jews full religious liberty''

End of the Golden Age

''The major Jewish presence in Iberia continued until the Jews were forcibly expelled en masse due to the edict of expulsion by Christian Spain in 1492 and a similar decree by Christian Portugal in 1497''

nuff said..

street level of .... read academical literature its not that simple in contractions, the "happy" Jews in Moorish Iberia and the "unhappy"Jews in the Catholic Spain and then the "happy" Jews in THe OE

Originally Posted by Flag

I know. Madness.



Christians were treated better under muslim rule than jews were treated under christian rule.
christians were allowed to be christian, and they lived peacefully with muslims when christians took over under the first portuguese king muslims and jews were granted their guilds and lived with equal rights than everyone else, then under the following kings they were forced to convert or face punishment.

buy a book... this one for example

Originally Posted by litwin

street level of .... read academical literature its not that simple in contractions, the "happy" Jews in Moorish Iberia and the "unhappy"Jews in the Catholic Spain and then the "happy" Jews in THe OE

They had street lamps, sanitation, running water and no epidemics... They also had a real renaissance in the arts, medicine, literature, translating the classics.

Something must have been going right or they wouldn't have had time to accomplish all that.

Meanwhile, my ancestors were painting themselves blue.....

Originally Posted by litwin

buy a book... this one for example

Guess Wheatcroft didn't know there were also Jews in Muslim Spain.. mostly descended from Berber converts.

Originally Posted by litwin

street level of .... read academical literature its not that simple in contractions, the "happy" Jews in Moorish Iberia and the "unhappy"Jews in the Catholic Spain and then the "happy" Jews in THe OE

you have all the reference at the end of page

Notes

^ The Ornament of the World by María Rosa Menocal, Accessed, 12 June 2006.
^ a b Lewis, Bernard W (1984). The Jews of Islam
^ a b Cohen, Mark R. (October 1995). Under Crescent and Cross. Princeton University Press. ISBN 069101082X.
^ Daniel J. Lasker (1997). "Review of Under Crescent and Cross. The Jews in the Middle Ages by Mark R. Cohen". The Jewish Quarterly Review 88 (1/2): 76–78.
^ a b Sephardim by Rebecca Weiner.
^ Fred J. Hill et al., A History of the Islamic World 2003 ISBN 0-7818-1015-9, p.73
^ Mark R. Cohen (1995), Under Crescent and Cross: The Jews in the Middle Ages, Princeton University Press, pp. 66–7 & 88, ISBN 069101082X, retrieved 2010-04-10
^ Mark R. Cohen (1995), Under Crescent and Cross: The Jews in the Middle Ages, Princeton University Press, pp. xvii, xix, 22, 163, 169, ISBN 069101082X, retrieved 2010-04-10
^ Mark R. Cohen (1995), Under Crescent and Cross: The Jews in the Middle Ages, Princeton University Press, ISBN 069101082X, retrieved 2010-04-10
^ Granada by Richard Gottheil, Meyer Kayserling, Jewish Encyclopedia. 1906 ed.

[edit] References

Esperanza Alfonso, Islamic culture through Jewish eyes : al-Andalus from the tenth to twelfth century, 2007 ISBN 978-0-415-43732-5
Mark Cohen, Under Crescent and Cross: The Jews in the Middle Ages 1995 ISBN 0-691-01082-X
Joel Kraemer, "Comparing Crescent and Cross," The Journal of Religion, Vol. 77, No. 3. (Jul., 1997), pp. 449–454


happy ready

Originally Posted by litwin

you sources please, was Andalusia more populated then the "big Constantinople" aria?

I was thinking of the Western European area in general, though yes, Constaninople was probably more populated or at least similar, since there were considerable arguements tha at least at some particular points Cordoba had a higher population than Constaninople, though pre-modern population stats and figure is often fuzzy at best.

Originally Posted by Margot

Guess Wheatcroft didn't know there were also Jews in Muslim Spain.. mostly descended from Berber converts.

some links?