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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MidwestMax View Post
Reagan hadn't even stepped off of the inauguration platform before he had them released.
Sounds like someone was afraid of what Reagan would do to them.

Of course, maybe it really was by chance that the hostages were released at that time. lol

Either way, it was nice of Reagan to let Carter announce that the hostages were released. Carter tried his darndest and did the best he could, he just wasn't the right kind of guy for the job.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008, 10:30 PM
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Worst

Reagan: traded arms with IRan to fund right wing deathsquads--treason, Borrow and spend policies put the gov. in such deep hock that our grandchildren will not repay the debt, is falsely attributed with causing the fall of the Soviets when in fact he continued policies in place for 40 years.

Truman: Gave the final deathblow to our constitutional form of government with his creation of the NSA.

GW Bush: Ordered the illegal invasion of Iraq resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of people, bankrupted the government worse than Reagan did, committed multiple felony violations of FISA, authorized blowing the cover of a WMD US spy during a time of war for political payback, Pre-empted state accountability/oversight regulations permitting the Housing Mortgage Scandal, my fingers are tired from typing.

Best

FDR--save the country from financial dissolution with Keynesian policies, recognized the threat posed by Nazi Germany and pushed to have the US enter the war, made (*)(*)(*)(*) sure that the UK did not fall to Nazi Germany by forcing Congress to provide resources.

Washington--could've been king, but wasn't

Lincoln--held the country together in its weakest moment.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2008, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decker
Reagan: traded arms with IRan to fund right wing deathsquads--treason, Borrow and spend policies put the gov. in such deep hock that our grandchildren will not repay the debt, is falsely attributed with causing the fall of the Soviets when in fact he continued policies in place for 40 years.
The end of the Soviets shouldn't be attributed to one man, but Reagan did play a major role in it, and more so than any other modern president.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decker
Truman: Gave the final deathblow to our constitutional form of government with his creation of the NSA.
The guys who make sure our government computers don't get cracked? Or am I thinking a different NSA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decker
GW Bush: Ordered the illegal invasion of Iraq resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of people, bankrupted the government worse than Reagan did, committed multiple felony violations of FISA, authorized blowing the cover of a WMD US spy during a time of war for political payback, Pre-empted state accountability/oversight regulations permitting the Housing Mortgage Scandal, my fingers are tired from typing.
Not sure what you mean by calling the invasion illegal, but okay?

As for the WMDs, we had Russian and United States intelligence that pointed to their existence, it wasn't your presidency on the line if those weapons were used for another 9/11 only this time on steroids.

The economy was hurt more by 9/11 and congress than Bush, so blaming all of those problems on one man is like attributing the end of the cold war to Reagan.

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Originally Posted by Decker
FDR--save the country from financial dissolution with Keynesian policies, recognized the threat posed by Nazi Germany and pushed to have the US enter the war, made (*)(*)(*)(*) sure that the UK did not fall to Nazi Germany by forcing Congress to provide resources.
Here's the weird part. In your complaints about Bush and Reagan you mentioned debt. Keynsesian economics is the priciple that to make money you need to spend it. (Reagan was actually obsessed with eliminating debt in his presidency) So the idea is to put yourself into debt by providing an excellent education system, which in 30-40 years would produce more money than what you put in + interest.

FDR's policies were excessive and made the depression worse. Hoover's policies were actually (and quite ironically) better off in the long run since FDR's caused high amounts of inflation and would make the economy better and then promptly back to where it was, on and off so to speak.

I don't think FDR was bad, but he really was the beginning of socialism in America, he actually had some of his staff go to Russia to look into socialism.
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The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it.

Neutrality is a negative word. It does not express what America ought to feel. We are not trying to keep out of trouble; we are trying to preserve the foundations on which peace may be rebuilt.

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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2008, 06:27 AM
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A whole lot easier to find 5 crappy presidents than 5 good ones.

(best)
#1 Thomas Jefferson
#2 James Madison
#3 Chester Arthur
#4 Calvin Coolidge
#5 James Monroe

Also hard to pick 5 worst out of such a large group.
(worst)
#1 Woodrow Wilson
#2 George W. Bush
#3 Herbert Hoover
#4 Richard Nixon
#5 Harry Truman
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2008, 08:12 PM
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Also hard to pick 5 worst out of such a large group.
(worst)
#1 Woodrow Wilson
What did Wilson do that you dislike so much?
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The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it.

Neutrality is a negative word. It does not express what America ought to feel. We are not trying to keep out of trouble; we are trying to preserve the foundations on which peace may be rebuilt.

I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow.
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDinoYoshi View Post
What did Wilson do that you dislike so much?
Wilson was pretty much a fascist. They didn't call it "war socialism" for nothing (Think about the War Industries Board). FDR came along later with the same ideas that Wilson had, but he was better at them. I would say that FDR is worse than Wilson.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2008, 10:03 PM
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Wilson was pretty much a fascist. They didn't call it "war socialism" for nothing (Think about the War Industries Board). FDR came along later with the same ideas that Wilson had, but he was better at them. I would say that FDR is worse than Wilson.
Well normally I would be against the concept of further government regulation (as the war industries board did to the mass production of war equipment), but during a time of war the government didn't have time to wait for supplies while labor went on strike or corporations played with supply to raise prices.

What I liked about Wilson was that he had the right ideas for settling the war, I seriously doubt WW2 would have been anything like it was had his plans been implemented after WW1 instead of GB and France's.
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The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it.

Neutrality is a negative word. It does not express what America ought to feel. We are not trying to keep out of trouble; we are trying to preserve the foundations on which peace may be rebuilt.

I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow.
Woodrow Wilson
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2008, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Worst

Reagan: traded arms with IRan to fund right wing deathsquads--treason
Since when is upholding the Monroe Doctrine treason?
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2008, 03:24 AM
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Worst
1. Regan
2. George W Bush
3. Carter
4. Nixon
5. JFK

Best
1. Washington
2. Jefferson
3. Monroe
4. Coolidge
5. Roosevelt
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2008, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperDinoYoshi View Post
Considering ... how successful Iraq is turning out to be, I really doubt it.
Iraq successful!?!?! WTF!?!?!

Who do you work for? Halliburton? Or Al Qaeda?

They are the only guys who think Iraq is a success.
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