"The World" - Sweden

Blade · #1 (**permalink**) 12-29-2007, 10:51 PM

So foreign countries don't like america because we offed a fascist dictator, huh? Let's take a look at some of the countries in "the world", and see if they should be opening their mouth criticizing anyone.

From the wiki entry for Sweden:

Quote:

Sweden was under German influence for most of the war, as ties to the rest of the world were cut off through blockades.[23] The Swedish government felt that it was in no position to openly contest Germany,[25] and therefore collaborated with Hitler.[26] Swedish volunteers in Nazi SS units were among the first to invade the Soviet Union in Operation Barbarossa. Sweden also supplied steel and machined parts to Germany throughout the war. Towards the end of the war however, when the defeat of Germany seemed imminent, Sweden began to play a role in humanitarian efforts and many refugees, among them many Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe, were saved partly because of the Swedish involvement in rescue missions at the internment camps and partly because Sweden served as a haven for refugees, primarily from Norden and the Baltic states.[25] Nevertheless, internal and external critics have argued that Sweden could have done more to resist the Nazi war effort, even if risking occupation.[25]
Following the war, Sweden took advantage of an intact industrial base, social stability and its natural resources to expand its industry to supply the rebuilding of Europe.

Summary: The swedes played footsie with the nazis. They sold Krupp iron ore for guns and ammunition to fight a war in which 55 million people died. How many americans, brits, and russians died from bullets and shells made from swedish iron ore? The wiki article doesn't mention that the swedes also let nazi troop trains pass through its "neutral" territory on the way to Norway. And they supplied volunteers to the SS - disgusting. Then they switched sides when the switching was good. THEN, they capitalized on destroyed europe, getting rich by selling things to the unfortunate countries which HAD resisted the nazis. When Jerome Holland, a black guy appointed ambassador to Sweden by Nixon arrived in Stockholm in 1970, he was greeted by a mob yelling "(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) go home".

Sweden - part of "the world".

lunecat · #2 (**permalink**) 12-29-2007, 11:45 PM

Yes - they certainly did have an unusual definition of being neutral in WWII.

But why the thread on Sweeden? Have they been critising the US?

Truth-Bringer · #3 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade

Summary: The swedes played footsie with the nazis. They sold Krupp iron ore for guns and ammunition to fight a war in which 55 million people died. How many americans, brits, and russians died from bullets and shells made from swedish iron ore?

How many people died from material sold to Hitler by the United States? America traded with Nazi Germany up until Pearl Harbor.

Whoops...

But then the U.S. never does anything unethical, does it, Blade? LOL.

Blade · #4 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer

How many people died from material sold to Hitler by the United States? America traded with Nazi Germany up until Pearl Harbor.

Whoops...

But then the U.S. never does anything unethical, does it, Blade? LOL.

Take your fantasy elsewhere.

Blade · #5 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunecat

Yes - they certainly did have an unusual definition of being neutral in WWII.

But why the thread on Sweeden? Have they been critising the US?

Sweden has long criticized the US. This thread is one in a series of looking at the record of the countries which hold themselves up as some kind of pure moral critic of the US.

Truth-Bringer · #6 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade

Take your fantasy elsewhere.

America traded with Nazi Germany. Why can't you accept the truth, Blade?

Has the United States government ever done anything unethical, Blade?

Flyflicker · #7 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade

Sweden has long criticized the US. This thread is one in a series of looking at the record of the countries which hold themselves up as some kind of pure moral critic of the US.

According to you. Can you back up that assertion? I'm pretty sure the US counts Sweden as an ally, not that they are going to back everything we do, but they certainly aren't an enemy either.

As for selling arms and materials to rogue nations, surely you aren't going to try to argue that the US has never done any similar trading? C'mon! Ever hear of a guy named Ollie North?

Blade · #8 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyflicker

According to you. Can you back up that assertion? I'm pretty sure the US counts Sweden as an ally, not that they are going to back everything we do, but they certainly aren't an enemy either.

The anti-swedish attitude toward the US is a well-known historical matter of record, especially during the Olaf Palme period. I'm not going to give you a history lesson - school yourself.

Quote:

As for selling arms and materials to rogue nations, surely you aren't going to try to argue that the US has never done any similar trading? C'mon! Ever hear of a guy named Ollie North?

The US, as I have endlessly repeated, has sold arms for reasons to oppose communism and islaomfascism. In the case you mention, North, in desperation over a democrat controlled congress in love with a marxist nicaraguan regime acting as a proxy for further soviet designs on latin america, broke the law to provide arms for anti-communist guerillas. To compare this to the swedes provinding critical materiel to the nazis is beyond stupid.

Flyflicker · #9 (**permalink**) 12-31-2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade

The anti-swedish attitude toward the US is a well-known historical matter of record, especially during the Olaf Palme period. I'm not going to give you a history lesson - school yourself.

The US, as I have endlessly repeated, has sold arms for reasons to oppose communism and islaomfascism. In the case you mention, North, in desperation over a democrat controlled congress in love with a marxist nicaraguan regime acting as a proxy for further soviet designs on latin america, broke the law to provide arms for anti-communist guerillas. To compare this to the swedes provinding critical materiel to the nazis is beyond stupid.

You're the one who asserted that Sweden is anti US. It's not up to me to try to support your assertions. An unsupported opinion has a value of exactly zero.

As for your attempt to justify treason, the fact is that Oliver North and Co. sold arms to Iran, an enemy of the United States, and then used the proceeds to subvert the will of the US Congress. You can couch that in some kind of Commies-are-out-to-get-us rhetoric, spin it to seem as though North was a hero freedom fighter, but the facts remain. That Democratic controlled Congress was democratically elected according to the Constitution of the US. The fact that North disagreed with them did not give him license to subvert the democratic process, and certainly not to sell arms to the enemy.

Would you support the idea of selling arms to Iran today in order to support the war on terror?