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Old 06-02-2008, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catonian View Post
Who could've really served as an effective ally for Germany? Italy was fairly successful as an ally, their navy was a pretty big deal. They did tend to bite off a bit more than they could chew, however. During the later parts of the war they become more of a problem than anything...

The USSR being Nazi Germany's ally? Eh. I just can't see it. The ideological differences between Fascism and Communism were just too great. Stalin and Hitler criticized themselves publicly far too much, even moreso than Stalin and Roosevelt.

First if you think Italy was a successful ally, then I must read the history books you're reading. Not to say that they didn't have an impressive army and navy, but they didn't use them...

I mean what was it, 300,000 troops taken by around 30,000 to 50K british troops in Ethiopia. And then Italy almost lost North Africa until the Germans came to save them. Or when in Greece they were pushed back when they tried to invade but were saved when Hitler came in.

Not only that but Italians were generally under-equipped to handle any of the allied powers (except maybe USSR in the beginning).

And the navy, which was an awesome fleet in many circumstances basically did not engage in large battles with the british in fear (quite a rational fear) that they would be destroyed. But combined with Germany's navy it would have easily out-matched Britain.

Overall, I don't think Italy was that successful as an ally. It did cause a major problem for the allies, but respectively, it was no Japan.

As for the USSR and Germany, I think that's a fanciful notion, however, they might have put aside their differences to remain at least neutral and possibly even fight the same people (as in the case of Poland). But I think Hitler's ambitions got in the way and the concept of Lebensraum pushed Hitler to invade Russia.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 04:00 PM
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I didn't say Italy was successful. I said they were somewhat successful. They did serve as preliminary meat-shield... But yes, they did tend to bite off way more than they could chew.
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Old 06-02-2008, 07:02 PM
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Oh gotcha, now that I look back I realized my trouble reading got the best of me.
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:33 AM
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France and Britain had a treaty with Poland but they didnt have one with Finland.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:18 PM
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The Molotrov-Ribbentrop Pact secretly stipulated that the Soviet Union would occupy and take over part of Poland... Why didn't the Allies declare on the Soviet Union when they participated in the "partition" that Poland underwent?
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:44 PM
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Default thinking can be a dangerous thing

you've focused on one theater of the war---the european one. Japan, China, USSR = Asia theater.
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Originally Posted by Young Republican View Post
I've been thinking about this since the World War II unit in school.

So Hitler and Stalin signed a treaty in August of 1939. A little over a week later, Hitler invaded Poland. Angered, Britain & France declared war on Germany and said let the games begin.
why did Britain and France declare war? What was the legal reasoning?
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Not long after, Stalin unexpectedly orders an attack on neutral and innocent Finland, yet the "allies" do nothing about it. Hypocrisy? Most definitely.
context is everything...
Britain had guaranteed the security of Czechoslovakia and it seemed war must break out at this point when the British Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, flew to Munich, and, in an act of appeasement, signed papers acceding to the invasion.

It should be remembered that the rapidly rearming Germany had militarily stolen a march on Britain, which was completely unprepared for war at this time. Chamberlain's act of appeasement, which has been widely criticised since as a cowardly submission, was explained by Chamberlain as an effort to buy time in which to rearm. Germany finally became engaged in full-scale war on September 1, 1939 as a consequence of the invasion of Poland, with whom both Britain and France had pledged guarantees.
so where is your hypocrisy?
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In WWI, we all know how quick the allies were to defend neutral Belgium when they were "raped" by Germany. So it would have only made sense to declare war the Soviets when they not only attacked a neutral country, but were at the time allies with the country they were already fighting, Germany.
sense? your opinions are not sufficient substitute for objectivity or facts.

Quote:
Considering the foriegn policies that Britain and France seemed to have had during this time, it would have made sense for them to attack the Soviets. So it'd be Churchill and De Gaulle versus Hitler and Stalin (and God knows what would've happened between the two of them).

In reality, WWII is a lot more complex once you look at it from a different point of view. Does anyone agree with me here? Or want to disagree?

thanks for reading...
sense? I often find when people are arguing over 'sense' they have very little common sense.

as in: "why did that man kill his family?" "it makes no sense."

hello?

Last edited by Dante.; 06-04-2008 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:13 PM
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^The hypocrisy is that if Great Britain were going to attack Germany for a reason, they should have attacked the Soviets for that reason as well.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Republican View Post
^The hypocrisy is that if Great Britain were going to attack Germany for a reason, they should have attacked the Soviets for that reason as well.
methinks you mean 'principle' where you write 'reason'

reason does not have to be consistent. reasoning can be arbitrary and nonsensible. principles can stand yet the actions they demand can be viewed within the context of circumstances and the moment.

I may say I will punch any man in the mouth who insults my mother to my face. If I follow through against one man who does so and who is unarmed, yet decide not to follow through on another man who is armed, am I being a hypocrite? is circumstance enough to alter things?

seeing things as black and white and denying the gray is to set the world up without the nuances that make it multidimensional. your logic is as flawed as most. if you live your life this way you will become a very angry, lonely and bitter individual. it is a set up for failure---for seeing the world as a dangerous and messed up place.
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