U.S. troops accused of killing Iraqi family - Page 2

JP5 · #11 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stekim";p=&quot

And many try and kill them. So what? The fact remains this will not sit well with many Iraqi's and no amount of candy will fix it.

Of course it won't. It doesn't sit well with us when our young military guys have their heads chopped off either. The vast majority of OUR military personnel are good, decent people, though. I'm not sure I could say that about the insurgents/terrorists fighting in Iraq.

At least we will make sure that justice gets done in this case. It will be investigated and anyone guilty prosecuted and sentenced.

nawbut · #12 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 11:00 AM

...such incidents have always occurred; they are, therefore, predictable.

Liberty · #13 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stekim";p=&quot

Actually, the bigger issue is not what Americans think. It's what Iraqi's think. This sort of thing, isolated or not, feeds anti-American sentiment there.

To tell you the truth, I really don't worry about that. Iraqis that have constant daily contact with our soldiers have a much more realistic view of the conduct of our soldiers than we do. If it's true that atrocities such as this are occurring regularly, I have no desire to change realistic impressions through media propaganda. Truth be told, many Iraqis prefer to be "policed" by US soldiers than by Iraqi police, who tend to be more corrupt and heavy handed.

stekim · #14 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Of course it won't. It doesn't sit well with us when our young military guys have their heads chopped off either.

True. But keep in mind who invaded whom. If you invade a country filled with half crazy Islamo-fascists people are going to get their heads chopped off. So to that end, it's somewhat preventable. Regrettable, as well, but preventable.

Quote:

The vast majority of OUR military personnel are good, decent people, though. I'm not sure I could say that about the insurgents/terrorists fighting in Iraq.

Again, we invaded a country filled with half crazy Islamo-fascists......

Quote:

At least we will make sure that justice gets done in this case. It will be investigated and anyone guilty prosecuted and sentenced.

As it should be.

MUNKO1970 · #15 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stekim";p=&quot

Actually, the bigger issue is not what Americans think. It's what Iraqi's think. This sort of thing, isolated or not, feeds anti-American sentiment there.

..and not only Iraqis but the Muslim world as a whole. These "alleged incidents" do absolutely nothing to help our image. Its the wrong perception to judge all by the actions of a few but that is what seems to be happening in the Muslim world today...which is exactly what Murtha was saying when he was "misquoted"..

Perception seems to be reality to most Muslims and its an unfortunate because America will always be a force for GOOD..

From Abu Ghraib to Haditha.......All very unfortunate incidents and to Raytri's point, they do happen in war but may have been prevented had we not embarked on this "unfortunate and misguided adventure"..

DuH2 · #16 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 05:29 PM

IOW "we have utterly FAILED to make the American people run away from the terorists so we will now procede to make the American Soldier the EVIL problem."

MUNKO1970 · #17 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuH2";p=&quot

IOW "we have utterly FAILED to make the American people run away from the terorists so we will now procede to make the American Soldier the EVIL problem."

you make that out all by yourself?

sputterman · #18 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 07:41 PM

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Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by raytri";p=&quot

They allegedly raped a woman, then killed her and three members of her family.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060630/...s_investigated

The investigation is still in the early stages, so no one should jump to conclusions about guilt or innocence. But one soldier has reportedly confessed, apparently prompted to do so by the recent kidnapping and killing of two soldiers.

Assuming they are guilty as charged, this does not impugn the military as a whole. But it does show, yet again, why war should be a last resort. Because there's no way to keep war from getting ugly in lots of ways both large and small.

Also, how many such incidents add up to evidence of declining discipline among American troops? The perception will develop long before the actuality, of course, but it's still a concern. Even the best troops can endure the pressure and frustration of occupation duty for only so long. Most won't go the route demonstrated here -- a descent into pure criminality. But they might get less careful about discriminating between insurgents and civilians. Either would be a setback for our counterinsurgency efforts, not to mention the lasting psychological damage among our soldiers.

I'm willing to accept that as an unfortunate but unavoidable side effect of a necessary war. But since I don't think invading Iraq was necessary in any way, this is just another piece of "collateral damage" that didn't have to be.

This belief of yours is what clouds your every opinion about the war. You said it above....."But since I don't think invading Iraq was necessary in any way...." It doesn't take much for someone who starts from that core belief to find fault with everything that happens over there. Even before we know if it really happened or not.

And you're right: we don't know if it's true or not. But even if it proves to be right......these kinds of things happened in WWII as well. And I doubt you would say that our involvement there was not necessary. Occassionally we have a bad policeman here in the states...but that doesn't mean the entire police force is going down the tubes or is bad.

Just because it happened in WWII doesn't mean it's ok now. It is especially not ok now. Back then we were fighting for the whole world. Now the whole world is watching us. And I don't think they are as sure as you are that we are the good guys.

And it did happen. Two guys have already confessed. So these guys are just bad apples you say.

And when did you become so politically correct? You want the accused to have a fair trial? I never heard you say that before.

sputterman · #19 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot

Yeah. When we see the video of our soldiers handiing out candy and gifts to the Iraqi children and giving them "high 5's"....helping to build their schools, etc.............we don't see Dems/liberals and the anti-war people saying....."Look at that: that represents our entire military in Iraq and is such as positive thing!" But let one or two of our soldiers do something wrong or even commit a crime and suddenly they are smearing the entire U.S. military.

Strange how that works with the anti-war crowd.

You call raping a Muslim girl and then killing her and her family something wrong or maybe even a crime? It's called an atrocity!

And it's not one or two, it's 14 already convicted and around 8 soldiers and 8 marines charged with murder and others being investigated for murder. And these latest 5 soldiers, who I'm sure will be charged soon.

MUNKO1970 · #20 (**permalink**) 06-30-2006, 07:58 PM

Do you realize the implications of such a story on AL JAZEERA or AL ARABIA TV?

Remember all that "gushy"talk about hearts and minds? Something like this DOES NOT win hearts and minds. Most people in this country (even liberals) know that a few bad apples do not represent the entire military.

But that is not the perception in a country like Pakistan or Indonesia or Syria.. A story like this mistakenly justifies what OBL and his cronies have been saying: America is the GREAT SATAN and what better way than to use such baseless propaganda than to play on the anger and lack of trust that these young men in these countries have for the US...

Such stories lead to many madrassas and that is the bigger problem...

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