They allegedly raped a woman, then killed her and three members of her family.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060630/...s_investigated

The investigation is still in the early stages, so no one should jump to conclusions about guilt or innocence. But one soldier has reportedly confessed, apparently prompted to do so by the recent kidnapping and killing of two soldiers.

Assuming they are guilty as charged, this does not impugn the military as a whole. But it does show, yet again, why war should be a last resort. Because there's no way to keep war from getting ugly in lots of ways both large and small.

Also, how many such incidents add up to evidence of declining discipline among American troops? The perception will develop long before the actuality, of course, but it's still a concern. Even the best troops can endure the pressure and frustration of occupation duty for only so long. Most won't go the route demonstrated here -- a descent into pure criminality. But they might get less careful about discriminating between insurgents and civilians. Either would be a setback for our counterinsurgency efforts, not to mention the lasting psychological damage among our soldiers.

I'm willing to accept that as an unfortunate but unavoidable side effect of a necessary war. But since I don't think invading Iraq was necessary in any way, this is just another piece of "collateral damage" that didn't have to be.

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Man up.

I think it's becoming more apparent that as long as we are there, "winning" is going to be very difficult. They have been fighting and working tirelessly for years, yet every single day the bombings and death go on nearly unabated. I can see how frustration would set in. That's not to say anyone did anything here, but I have noticed the number of alleged incidents rise over time.

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I wasn't born with enough middle fingers.

This belief of yours is what clouds your every opinion about the war. You said it above....."But since I don't think invading Iraq was necessary in any way...." It doesn't take much for someone who starts from that core belief to find fault with everything that happens over there. Even before we know if it really happened or not.

And you're right: we don't know if it's true or not. But even if it proves to be right......these kinds of things happened in WWII as well. And I doubt you would say that our involvement there was not necessary. Occassionally we have a bad policeman here in the states...but that doesn't mean the entire police force is going down the tubes or is bad.

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"This is a time for a national imperative not to fail in Iraq." Condoleeza Rice, January 11, 2007

I just heard 10 seconds ago that one guy did indeed confess and will roll on the rest. We'll see what happens.

And let's not compare WWII with Iraq. It's silly.

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I wasn't born with enough middle fingers.

Why does my belief that the war was unnecessary "cloud" my opinion? It's a fundamental part of my opinion. Just as your opinion that the war was justified affects how you view developments there. Neither constitutes "clouding".

Correct. I'm not sure what your point is.

I said this does not impugn the military as a whole. I'm not claiming that discipline is declining; I merely raised the question of "what number of incidents would constitute evidence of declining discipline?"

It's a fair question.

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Man up.

It shouldn't, but it will. Given the paucity of reporting of good deeds by our soldiers, constant reporting of events like these can only serve to build prejudice.

Actually, the bigger issue is not what Americans think. It's what Iraqi's think. This sort of thing, isolated or not, feeds anti-American sentiment there.

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I wasn't born with enough middle fingers.

Yeah. When we see the video of our soldiers handiing out candy and gifts to the Iraqi children and giving them "high 5's"....helping to build their schools, etc.............we don't see Dems/liberals and the anti-war people saying....."Look at that: that represents our entire military in Iraq and is such as positive thing!" But let one or two of our soldiers do something wrong or even commit a crime and suddenly they are smearing the entire U.S. military.

Strange how that works with the anti-war crowd.

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"This is a time for a national imperative not to fail in Iraq." Condoleeza Rice, January 11, 2007

Well, I can tell you that many are very grateful and appreciative. My friend's son is over there and is responsible with interacting with a particular town. The leaders and people of that town are very appreciative.....they believe God sent the Marines to protect them and they do not want the terrorist/insurgents in their town. They constantly thank the Marines.

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"This is a time for a national imperative not to fail in Iraq." Condoleeza Rice, January 11, 2007

And many try and kill them. So what? The fact remains this will not sit well with many Iraqi's and no amount of candy will fix it.

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I wasn't born with enough middle fingers.