Thread: The Right to Die

I think that an important aspect of this question is, what does legal suicide show about the society that allows it? The cause of a person committing suicide (apart from mental illness and complete irrationality) is usually that he is isolated from the community at large. I think that it is important to tackle the source of isolation and alienation, so that suicide (if legally allowed) occurs rarely.

Originally Posted by spt5

No, because what if they don't have insurance?

Maybe in your country but not in the U.S. Here, we have other problems getting people help.

I investigated a lot of suicides and most did not involve any serious mental illness. Temporary depression. For women, age seemed to be significant. For some, it was closer to stupid than crazy. Some suicdes are attacks. Their notes say things like, "Now you'll be sorry..." or "I'll laugh when you read this...." Sure those are irratinal statements but they show a clear intent to hurt. My saddest, personally, was amn who was decent, conscientious. He was about sixty. He had a sharp pain in his side and bought a "diagnorse yourself" book. He diagnosed himself with pancreatic cancer and didn't want to be a burden on his family. His suicide was extremely considerate of family and everyone else. The autopsy disclosed a kidney stone.

Oh, and a high percentage of the suicdes involved people who were drunk. That's no surprise.

I always have the option of killing msyelf. I can't imagine trasnferring that burden to someone else unless I was totally paralyzed and someone else was feeding me. But, that's just me.

Originally Posted by Heroclitus

Looking at the etymology of language is one aspect, and only one, of determining the meaning of a word. Usage is probably the most important aspect. The dictionary also helps. Try it.

As to your example, yes, this is involuntary euthanasia. This is the meaning of the word. That doesn't mean anyone agrees with it. Who is saying involuntary euthanasia is justifiable? Name them. Not only would your example be involuntary euthansia, but this would also be murder.

The meaning of words is important. The rambling drivel you post to abuse "liberals" is a master class in how to abuse and misrepresent the meaning of words to slander and abuse.

Not even close, Heroclitus. But those who desire to murder without penalty are on a roll.

Originally Posted by spt5

Suicide happens in nature every day, at a very high rate, in all branches of the animal kingdom. The difference is that the natural suicide is by proxy. An animal that is not high enough at its mood/spirit will be more susceptible to deceases and will die earlier. Also, there is stress induced suicide in the animal kingdom too, most notably with the bug called scorpion.

But for humans, civilization has eliminated the opportunity of suicide by falling to deceases. Civilization has also increased stress, but still opposes the stress related suicide too.

Civilization may probably not be the work of God ... .

That's a fantasy. Do you have evidence that animals have moods or that if they do being in a bad mood will cause them to die?

I assume that with the scorpion story you're referring to the myth that they sting themselves to death. Yes, they're sensitive to heat and have seizures when they get too hot but they have some immunity to the poison and don't "sting themselves to death".

Originally Posted by PatrickT

Not even close, Heroclitus. But those who desire to murder without penalty are on a roll.

If you say so...yawn....remind me next time not to bother....

Originally Posted by PatrickT

Maybe in your country but not in the U.S. Here, we have other problems getting people help.

I investigated a lot of suicides and most did not involve any serious mental illness. Temporary depression. For women, age seemed to be significant. For some, it was closer to stupid than crazy. Some suicdes are attacks. Their notes say things like, "Now you'll be sorry..." or "I'll laugh when you read this...." Sure those are irratinal statements but they show a clear intent to hurt. My saddest, personally, was amn who was decent, conscientious. He was about sixty. He had a sharp pain in his side and bought a "diagnorse yourself" book. He diagnosed himself with pancreatic cancer and didn't want to be a burden on his family. His suicide was extremely considerate of family and everyone else. The autopsy disclosed a kidney stone.

Oh, and a high percentage of the suicdes involved people who were drunk. That's no surprise.

I always have the option of killing msyelf. I can't imagine trasnferring that burden to someone else unless I was totally paralyzed and someone else was feeding me. But, that's just me.

What if we are trained to take people's suicides too seriously? My classmate dumped his GF and then she killed herself and blamed him for it. It was absolutely impossible to tell him to snap out of it and stop taking it so seriously/personally, no matter how I tried to play it down for him.

Originally Posted by PatrickT

That's a fantasy. Do you have evidence that animals have moods or that if they do being in a bad mood will cause them to die?

I assume that with the scorpion story you're referring to the myth that they sting themselves to death. Yes, they're sensitive to heat and have seizures when they get too hot but they have some immunity to the poison and don't "sting themselves to death".

Yes, there is plenty of evidence that animals have moods. Of course this is different from species to species, but we can make very similar behavioral observations to those in humans. Adding that the animal kingdom is in constant competition for the most basics such as food and shelter, even a tiny slow-down for a low mood can cause a slip-behind and eventual death ... "suicide" by proxy.

For example, the monkey that has lost his fight to another for a mate, is observed to be in lower mood. More recent biochemical observations indicate negative hormonal changes in the loser too. All this takes time away from the animal's normal push for survival.