Being under 18 shouldn't make you a slave

**submarinepainter** · Oct 04 2011, 10:49 AM

At 53 I wish I could still live by Mom and Dad's rules!! I am happy it is 18 because kids have a right to be kids !! signed agrumpy old fart

**perdidochas** · Oct 04 2011, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Leo2

LOL, I have some sympathy with the OP, and, as I turned 18 six weeks ago, I am a legal adult and you lot (many of whom have been dismissing me as a kid since I joined) have to take me seriously now.

I'm not sure quite what point Sonofodin is making, but it almost appears he is being 'piled on' a bit for introducing an interesting topic. Apropos of which, I think a lot of under 18 year olds are quite mature, and would be quite capable of looking after themselves were they living independently.

I also agree that some of the restrictions placed on teens (even myself at 18 in respect of staying out late and drinking,) are a bit Draconian. Like I can understand parents being concerned about chicks, but what can happen to a 15-18 year old guy? Like we're big enough to take care of ourselves in a fight, and we are not going to get in the pudding club, are we?

So how about objectively examining what he has to say? And I don't think he meant human rights in the UN sense, but many teens are not afforded all rights adults are.

When you are in your 40s, and look back at yourself at 18, it will make much more sense to you. Most 18 yr olds think they can handle anything life throws at them. I know I did. I now (at 45) know I was wrong.

I think the OP is exaggerating the slave aspect a bit. Child labor laws prevent that, for the most part. Also, most parents have a sliding scale in terms of freedom for their teens (unless circumstances (i.e. abuse of rules) change that).

(Also, the OP claims to be older than 1

**submarinepainter** · Oct 04 2011, 10:51 AM

Leo you have always presented yourself as an adult!

**Sonofodin** · Oct 04 2011, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

Can you give me an example of a basic human right that children do not have?

They can't live where they want, can't travel, can't decide what should be put into or taken from their bodies, can't work and more.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

LOL, no you dont. Thats the whole point of emancipation...you are removing your parents as your guardian against their will.

Look up NJ emancipation laws, you need parental consent.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

The reason we can make sweeping generalizations is because every single adult, without exceptuion, used to belong to that "group" at one time. Not only do we all have experience being kids, we have MORE experience than any child, because we have already gone through all of it.

Everyone's experiences are different, to think you know more than someone else because you're older is just pompous and untrue.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

What? How DARE you make sweeping generalizations about those children!Who are you to take away their rights and tell them what is best for them?

I'm not telling them what's best. If they can support themselves at 10 years old then that's great.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

We cant make laws for the exceptions. You do have recourse if you really think you are more mature than most people your age. Thats what emancipation is for.

Even after emancipation, your opportunities and rights are severely limited. Besides, emancipation has an age requirement.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

Who should get the final say as to whether you are ready?

Should a three year old be allowed to go off on their own if they think they are ready? If not, why?

This is so silly, do you honestly think that would happen if their wasn't an age of majority law? What stops kids from running away now? Certainly not government, they night get them back sometimes. Kids will run away if they want to, law or not.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

Why not? Thats kinda the point of democracy. You dont like democracy?

No, I don't. I'm an anarchist, but that's a different topic.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

Are you saying you think toddlers should be able to participate in sex if they want to? If not, why?

As long is it's consensual and no one is raped or hurt then yes. I see sex as no different than any other activity. Do you think cutting a babies foreskin off against his will is better? Anyway, it wouldn't matter, Society abhors the idea of pedophilia so people that tried that probably wouldn't last long.

**Sadistic-Savior** · Oct 04 2011, 01:45 PM

Me: Can you give me an example of a basic human right that children do not have?

They can't live where they want, can't travel, can't decide what should be put into or taken from their bodies, can't work and more.

They can do all of that stuff if they are emancipated. Though I am not sure I agree that those are "basic human rights".

If they are not emancipated, their parents are responsible for their actions. Dont you think it would be unreasonable not to give parents control over these things if they are being held responsible? Kinda unfair to the parents isnt it?

Look up NJ emancipation laws, you need parental consent.

If you are making the claim, you are expected to provide evidence. Your claims are not correct by default.

Consent of both parents or guardians (this can be waived under certain circumstances)

http://www.ehow.com/about_6317189_co...ation-law.html

No, parental consent is not necessarily required. I am guessing NJ does the same thing.

Me: The reason we can make sweeping generalizations is because every single adult, without exceptuion, used to belong to that "group" at one time. Not only do we all have experience being kids, we have MORE experience than any child, because we have already gone through all of it.

Everyone's experiences are different, to think you know more than someone else because you're older is just pompous and untrue.

Obviously the majority of adults agree with me (in other words, have had similar experiences) or else the current laws would have already been removed long ago...right?

Should we start a poll on here to find out how many adults agree with me? What do you think the results would be?

Me: Who should get the final say as to whether you are ready? Should a three year old be allowed to go off on their own if they think they are ready? If not, why?

This is so silly

Why is it sillier than saying the same thing for a 10 year old or a 12 year old? What objective measure are you using to determine when it becomes "silly"?

Me: Why not? Thats kinda the point of democracy. You dont like democracy?

No, I don't. I'm an anarchist, but that's a different topic.

LOL

Me: Are you saying you think toddlers should be able to participate in sex if they want to? If not, why?

As long is it's consensual and no one is raped or hurt then yes.

I think it is safe to say you are in a tiny minority. It explains a lot about your other arguments.

**Jack Ridley** · Oct 04 2011, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

I think it is safe to say you are in a tiny minority. It explains a lot about your other arguments.

It seems to me that if you had any consistency you would be a part of that tiny minority.

**Sadistic-Savior** · Oct 04 2011, 02:31 PM

Why would I be part of that minority? I dont agree with him.

How would that make me inconsistent anyway?

**Jack Ridley** · Oct 04 2011, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

How would that make me inconsistent anyway?

Because your a Sadistic Saviour, Mr. Hard Nosed Pragmatist who enjoys delivering the hard truth to others. If you want to rule and maintain social stability in this ruthless world, we need to start sexing up little kiddies as soon as you can so they don't develop any strong emotions associated with the subject.

**Sonofodin** · Oct 04 2011, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

No, parental consent is not necessarily required. I am guessing NJ does the same thing.

I'm not going to find the statute for you, do a little googling and you can find it. I know from personal experience that you need parental consent.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

Obviously the majority of adults agree with me (in other words, have had similar experiences) or else the current laws would have already been removed long ago...right?

Should we start a poll on here to find out how many adults agree with me? What do you think the results would be?

So what? Majority doesn't mean right.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

Why is it sillier than saying the same thing for a 10 year old or a 12 year old? What objective measure are you using to determine when it becomes "silly"?

Way to quote mine, that's not all I said.

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

I think it is safe to say you are in a tiny minority. It explains a lot about your other arguments.

Well, no (*)(*)(*)(*). What does this have to do with the discussion?

**DominorVobis** · Oct 05 2011, 02:22 AM

In Australia, it's 15 and this is too young in most cases. Laws unfortunately cannot be tailor made to suit all individual needs and some of us will always be left out.

It would be impracticable any other way. There has to be an arbitrary line drawn for all sorts of legal and governmental reasons and rightly or wrongly it is something we all have to live with.

I believe that we truly become adult when we come to understand that.