Thread: Women in Islam

Originally Posted by Mr_Truth

The same thing happens in Christians cultures and more so in Hindu cultures.

You and Alexa should jump off your high horse for just a second and consider this rationally. The quote is there for you to see and put in the contexts by which I have explained I stand by it. What you have done - both of you - is read that statement and interpreted it as “These acts are intrinsic to Islam.” or “These acts are all that defines Islam.” or “Islam is inherently violent and oppressive.” And then you have addressed me accordingly from what I can tell. Alexa especially has launched straight into lecture mode and proceeding to provide a list of links highlighting prejudices against Muslims and had sought to align me - again from what I can tell - with the likes of the perpetrators. Which is, profoundly much more than annoying. But it’s a forum and I’m more than happy to explain myself, that’s the good thing about the written word, you can take the time to state your case. And people can’t change the words to fit. So the acts are “linked” to Islam, yes they are, it doesn’t mean they are unique to Islam, it doesn’t mean they started with Islam, it means that purportedly strict practitioners and followers of Islam practice these things all the time. It’s not me being a right wing Islamophobe, or even being ambiguous, I have tried to be very succinct, but it seems you have to write essays just to justify linking these acts to the faith, question is why? Why is it such a terrible act to link them? They are problems within Islam, are you going to refute that? So the fact that similar things happen outside of Islam doesn’t change things.

Originally Posted by Mr_Truth

We have already this discussed this before but I'll post it again to prove that girls and women are FAR more oppressed in other societies without the slightest objection from the West:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?i...1#.T6K2n1KGIc4

If female oppression is of great concern to you, begin with criticizing this. Unlike Hinduism or any other religion on earth, Islam has the highest rate of female converts. That tells you all you need to know about its leanings towards women.

Mr Truth, why should I start with this? Of course, I can start a thread (or maybe you can) to discuss the atrocities occurring within other religions. No problem. I don’t see why this means I am not allowed to talk about the issues within Islam.

Originally Posted by alexa

It is very hard trying to communicate to someone who still has not had the grace to look at the links I provided in my second reply to him and so is ignoring what I say. It is a waste of my time really.

Well I looked at the previous two, and frankly it’s insulting. Perhaps you can explain the motives behind the links? And nobody is forcing you to “waste your time” feel free not to reply, you won’t hurt my feelings.

Originally Posted by alexa

Exactly who here, including yourself do you think is an expert of whatever book this is that does not falter whatever that means?

Well here we get to the bones of my position. Firstly, no, I’m not an expert, but as I said I did dabble and in my humble opinion the book does falter (you have read the sentence wrong, it reads that the book does falter). By that I mean it is not innocent, the verse I posted is very famous and can be spun any which way you want, it condones beating disobedient wives, essentially. And of course you just say it was written over a thousand years ago, just ignore it. Which would be fine if the book didn’t claim to be inerrant dogma, there is an irrefutable problem with that, but please feel free to tell me why there is not. You are much older, and claim to be much more well-read, which judging by your years you probably are. So why not… from now on I am your student.

Originally Posted by alexa

I have been on forums where BNP members have tirelessly produced Koran sayings to degrade all Muslims and try to produce Islamophobia.

I can’t see how you can justify talking to me like that. Very annoying to put it lightly.

Originally Posted by alexa

Now if you expect me to believe that you coming on here first of all blaming Islam for forced marriage, FGM, and the practice of the Taliban and then to start bringing up odd pieces of god knows what to try and show how bad they are, and you expect me not to believe your intent is to create anti-islam feeling then you are daft.

Well, I’m afraid I must be daft. As I have said, take a look at the second post, before you even got involved. Women’s rights in Islam is there. I’m not blaming Islam for these acts, I’m saying the acts are linked, that they are problems. Like the Sunni and Shia split is linked to Islam… right? That’s not to say Islam invented sectarianism. Think… I’m being very patient here.

Originally Posted by alexa

You are here to paint a particular picture of Islam. You are not here to gain an understanding of what is going on - after all you know it all already do you not...

I don’t think you have given the discussion the slightest room to breath. All you wanted to do was jump on your high horse as soon as someone mentioned problems within the faith. But please - because you are wrong - continue to school me as you will. But stop the nonsense assumptions with regards to my motives.

Originally Posted by alexa

It is a universal spiritual truth. Let go of your ego and you and I are one. At the same time we are also more individual than most people could ever imagine. It is a spiritual truth. However the masses in most faiths just go around trying to be good..

That’s very nice, I feel as though we are bonding. But you still misunderstand my wording. Let’s drop consciousness, I am talking about the infinite manifestations under the banner of the monolith Islam. It is not defined by any one thing, it is 1.6 billion interpretations of the same book, now you give credence to some interpretations over others, which is only right. My point is that this practice doesn’t negate the fact that others see it differently. We can sit here and say these people are not representing Islam, and that’s true to some extent, but they see it much differently.

Originally Posted by alexa

I doubt you will now. If you genuinely have a real interest in understanding things you need to start reading a lot more. Whether your intention was to encourage islamophobes, you have come on speaking just like one. Now that is either due to inexperience, not taking the time to make yourself clear or because you did have the intention to do so. I gather you have had some experience which was not good.

As I’ve said I always enjoy these exchanges and I thank you for that. Say what you like, you’re wrong. I am reminded of Ayaan Hirsi Ali who says this about going through similar accusations: "I'm not being rightwing," she says. "The people who believe themselves to be on the left, and who defend the agents of Islam in the name of tolerance and culture, are being rightwing. Not just rightwing. Extreme rightwing. I don't understand how you can be so upset about the Christian right and just ignore the Islamic right. I'm talking about equality." (She is seeing the rightwing historian Niall Ferguson, who, she wrote recently in a Dutch magazine, she is "enormously in love with", but won't comment on it today, nor smile at the suggestion that in most people's minds this will instantly reposition her on the political scale.)

Her life is in danger for speaking out about the wrongs within Islam, and with much more venom than I even began to. Do you think she deserves it?