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  #1101 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
What on earth makes you think that all places in the world to eat out would be smoke-filled if we simply allowed business owners to choose whether or not to allow smoking in their establishments?

Aren't there some people in existence who place value on a smoke-free environment (I would think there are some, judging by this thread)? Wouldn't there be plenty of reasons for the owner of a restaurant to ban smoking on his premises? I think it would appeal to plenty of customers, a lot more than appealing to smokers would bring in. Right there, that is an incentive.

I really just don't understand left-think.
The employees who work at restaurants that allow smoking would be exposed to that as a health hazard.

Its a personal habit that smokers need to keep to themselves...unfortunately its not like drinking and it is a habit that is SHARED when they do this in a closed environment. That means doing it in such closed environments is prohibited so that their choice to smoke does not affect others.

We could also say that not all companies would neglect to provide safety glasses or other safety equipment to employees doing a job that needs such things...but we go ahead and make sure they do by creating a regulation that they must adhere to. It helps makes sure that all employees have the safest working environment they can have. Smoking is no different.

Does a smoker HAVE TO go out to eat? It seems thats much more of a choice than a person who needs a paycheck.
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  #1102 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellah View Post
The employees who work at restaurants that allow smoking would be exposed to that as a health hazard.

Its a personal habit that smokers need to keep to themselves...unfortunately its not like drinking and it is a habit that is SHARED when they do this in a closed environment. That means doing it in such closed environments is prohibited so that their choice to smoke does not affect others.

We could also say that not all companies would neglect to provide safety glasses or other safety equipment to employees doing a job that needs such things...but we go ahead and make sure they do by creating a regulation that they must adhere to. It helps makes sure that all employees have the safest working environment they can have. Smoking is no different.

Does a smoker HAVE TO go out to eat? It seems thats much more of a choice than a person who needs a paycheck.
I smoke (only cigarettes ) but when it came up for a vote in Florida I voted to have smoking in a restaurant banned. Even before it became a law, if I was eating in a restaurant, and I wanted a smoke I would go outside. I believe that an individual's right to do as they please ends at the point that it invades the next person's rights to do the same. I hate someone smoking next to me as I'm trying to eat dinner as much as a non-smoker does.
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  #1103 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 10:51 PM
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I think pro-choice goes for everyone.
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:52 PM
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Nanny State wants to make death illegal, and then tax it.

Why you so guud to me Nanny State?
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
Poor people smoke the most. So high taxes on cigarettes are really a form of class warfare...
No wonder they are poor.
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  #1106 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2008, 01:17 AM
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Not going to read all 1000+ posts, but here’s my take on the OP’s position:

Quote:
I have lived my entire life being surrounded by people that smoke. However, I don't believe that smoking is acceptable. Smoking is harmful in so many ways that it is surprising that it isn't illegal already. I mean, SMOKING KILLS! In addition, cigarettes can cause cancer in the mouth and/or lungs, gum disease, and much more, and yet, they are not illegal. WHY?
Yeah, fatty food kills too. Take your crusade to McDonalds.

Quote:
Cigarettes contain addicting ingredients just like other drugs, yet they aren't outlawed like they are. WHY?
The real question is why the other drugs are outlawed. A couple hundred years ago, all drugs were legal in most places. Drugs did not destroy society. The original drug laws in America were directed against unpopular groups of people, the first of which was against opium dens from the Chinese railroad workers. Meanwhile, upper classed white women injected morphine. What is and is not illegal has always been arbitrary in terms of drug control.
People correctly concluded that alcohol was the most dangerous to people other than the user. But alcohol prohibition failed to stop alcohol abuse. In fact, it increased alcohol abuse even though it decreased actual use because people binged and used it irresponsibly. Such things can be guarded against to some extent in a regulated market. Deaths and blindness from methanol poisoning went up, also because of no regulation. Organized crime greatly increased because black markets offer tremendous profits, the kind of profits that people will kill for. The war on drugs today is no different. It doesn’t address the problem, and yet it causes more problems. All drugs should be legalized and regulated.

Quote:
They are even considered a linking drug to other more dangerous drugs.
That’s correlative, not causative. If somebody is willing to smoke, they are more likely to be willing to try things like marijuana and cocaine in the first place. If cigarettes didn’t exist, they still would have been more likely to try harder drugs than other people. If you make cigarettes illegal, it will actually increase the use of harder drugs because more people will associate with criminals to get their nicotine fixes, who are likely to peddle other types of drugs. This would also normalize criminality, reducing respect for the law as otherwise normal citizens will now be associating with the deputies of organized crime.

Quote:
I just don't see how something like smoking can be accepted in a society that is very against the use of other drugs. Don't try to tell me that they aren't as dangerous. My own grandfather died because he smoked, and yet, this is acceptable to society.
It depends on what criteria you use. Nicotine, a pesticide, is the most addictive substance, but isn’t socially dangerous in terms of intoxication. If you’re concerned about 2nd hand smoke, you can force people not to smoke in public without banning smoking outright. As with all drugs, there is such a thing as responsible and irresponsible use. The delivery methods of nicotine all cause chronic health conditions, but so long as the person is aware of those risks then it’s their choice. If you can prove that cigarette smoke causes cancer for bystanders, then you can pass laws to regulate where people smoke. Alcohol is no different. People can drink, but not while driving. Same standard should apply to all intoxicating drugs. If they can use their drug without putting others at risk, let them do it.

Just remember that the prohibition of any drug never has and never will help the situation.
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  #1107 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2008, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by presluc View Post
Well, the tobacco industry isn't going broke.
Smokers pay taxes everytime they buy a pack of cigarettes.
Now in some states without cigarette taxes that big pot hole in front of that restuarant might not get fixed, and if the snow should come the road to that restuarant might not get salted so cars could get to it.

So if restuarant ownrs want to pay a higher property tax to cover this , fine he should not even allow smokers in is restuarant after all smokers could have an aroma of smoke on their clothes, but when propety taxs go up don't be complaining.

Left-think; the more taxes paid by smokers the less taxes non smokers have to pay, the less taxes from smokers well who's left to cover the taxes???
I have to disagree

The one has nothing to do with the other ...

road maintenance is basically paid by fuel taxes
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  #1108 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2008, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
Poor people smoke the most. So high taxes on cigarettes are really a form of class warfare...
oh ... so it's the fault of the POOR that there is another class to war with?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellah View Post
The employees who work at restaurants that allow smoking would be exposed to that as a health hazard.
that is a weak comment.

If it's such a problem - let them BUY their own restaurant or JUST GET A DIFFERENT JOB!

All they have to do is get a DIFFERENT JOB ... doubt they will get a better paying job as a welder ... because of the smoke?


HERE IS THE PROBLEM:
in your society - the employer has less rights than the schmuck who will probably quit in 3 months
or won't grow beyond their current position because
they are too busy wanting to change the things that they should have NO effect on - like other peoples investments.

IMO: Don't like my work rules - THERE IS THE DOOR!
don't let the knob hit in you the butt!
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  #1109 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2008, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBasicsAbout View Post
I have to disagree

The one has nothing to do with the other ...

road maintenance is basically paid by fuel taxes
Well, that's great why don't you drop a line to you're congressman like I have, and tell him to lower taxes on cigarettes.
After all as you said road mateniance is paid for by fuel taxes.
Of course that include the many bridges and overpases that are in need of repair according to Fox news. plus property damage by hurricanes ect.


I'm sure glad fuel taxes is paying for all of this, otherwise the states would be in TROUB...???

Last edited by presluc; 10-04-2008 at 09:05 AM.
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  #1110 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2008, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBasicsAbout View Post
oh ... so it's the fault of the POOR that there is another class to war with?




that is a weak comment.

If it's such a problem - let them BUY their own restaurant or JUST GET A DIFFERENT JOB!

All they have to do is get a DIFFERENT JOB ... doubt they will get a better paying job as a welder ... because of the smoke?


HERE IS THE PROBLEM:
in your society - the employer has less rights than the schmuck who will probably quit in 3 months
or won't grow beyond their current position because
they are too busy wanting to change the things that they should have NO effect on - like other peoples investments.

IMO: Don't like my work rules - THERE IS THE DOOR!
don't let the knob hit in you the butt!
"Poor people smoke the most".

Well, poor people get bored too, and unfortunatly taking the lear jet to the islands is not an option.
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