Well I will tell you what is happening to bars and cafes in Washington they are closing up shop. The state has banned smoking in all public places Ok We have several indan reservations that have casinos they also have food, drinks. dancing, live music, gambaling from machines that also have been banned in all public places, and you can smoke all you want. The casinos are full everyday 23 hours a day while all public places are empty..

It's really not the same. Why stop at safety rails and goggles? Why not bubble wrap the entire place? There are limits and people are somehow going to be responsible for their own movement. Peanuts are a deadly substance. We should ban those too eh?

A bar is a place where people go to consume substances and everybody knows what substances are being consumed there. Is is really so terrible for people to make their own choices? Do we need to ban fat people from eating? That would be the same argument as banning cigarettes.

Only because you think that you have a right to what's mine. You simply do not have a right to it and I have every right to kick people off that property. I also am NOT required to hire every single person that applies for a job. You are not entitled to my property. Sadly collectivists like yourself are growing in numbers. The individualist spirit that founded and built this nation is dying out. We don't have a chance at sustaining prosperity IMO. It's almost always the people that don't own such establishments that want to pass these laws. They can't bother themselves with the responsibility of choice.

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Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness ~Thomas Paine

Nope, a fat person eating themselves to death next to me has zero impact on my health. I wont gain an ounce nor increase my risk for heart disease because some munches chips next to me. A person smoking next to me or where I work DOES have an affect on my health.

Making a work place and public venues as safe as is reasonably possible is common sense. Its easy and reasonable to prohibit smokers from smoking in closed public places and venues and keep their smoking habit at home or in their own personal spaces (like their own cars) OR they can also smoke in the outdoors where people are not closed in and breathing in their smoke.

They can also choose to use other delivery systems for their nicotine when in closed public spaces. They really do have choices.

Its not about entitlement to your property, its the fact that your property is a commercial one and has to abide by regulations that protect the public health, the workers and environment you are in. You even have to abide by zoning regulations as well and cant run any sort of business you want in any location you want.

Your individual rights end when they are inteferring and denying the next person their rights.

I really dont care how much you harm your health, you have every right to do it BUT you dont have the right to destroy other peoples health with your vices. Thats not your individual right. Therefore your vices also come with some restrictions....just like drinking is legal but driving under the influence is not. Its a legal activity that has regulations to protect the public health.

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"You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people
can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad)

You are comparing bars and restaurants to casinos? They arent even the same sort of business.

Its also great to "say" this is happening and then point to bans on smoking as the cause...but that doesnt actually mean its a fact. You really dont expect me to accept it as fact just because you say so right?

__________________
"You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people
can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad)

I think if it is worthwhile making hard drugs illegal, we might as well make cigarettes illegal. Seems logical to me....

You don't have to make possession illegal, just selling them. That would knock most of the steam out of the market, and considering it doesn't give you a buzz, I suspect the habit will die a natural death over a very short time.

Still waiting for a response, Jellah.

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A restuarant for smokers only would not kill people either so where are they?

Side note; you don't need AK47's or a Mack 10 to go hunting???

You could even takeit a step farther.

WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO ANYBODY.

A RESTURANT FOR SMOKING ONLY AS THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO NONSMOKING PATRONS.

I'll take the liberty:

The decision whether to work or not to work is not a free option. On balance a worker might need to work in a riskier environment in order to make ends meet, and will make an economic decision, but that is no justification for the employer to allow for a riskier work environment.

I have answered this.

It would be nice to pretend that people are in such a great position to pick and choose jobs but they dont really have that luxury which is exactly why movements to improve workers rights arose. People DO need jobs, they are NOT plentiful and employers have employees by the proverbial short hairs and its not right to make people choose between no means of support or to trade their health for the paycheck.

Why cant those addicted to nicotine simply use a different delivery method is closed public venues instead of THE ONE that causes others to be negatively affected?

And btw, thats right smokers have the same rights as EVERYONE ELSE and everyone else is ALSO subject to regulations in regards to their vices and what can and cant be done on commercial property. Drunk people cant drive drunk..they cant even have an open container in a car in most states (maybe all of them). People cant have sex in the middle of the street or even in their own front yard. We also have noise ordinances we cant violate. There are numerous regulations we are subject to that help prevent us from violating the rights of others.

Its rather normal for us to have to abide by some sort of regulations that balance our individual rights against those of the community.

Smoking forces others to breath in your smoke and thereby negatively impacting their health. Thats a violation of OTHER PEOPLES rights...your individual rights dont include the right to violate other peoples rights.

Its odd how no one wants to even acknowledge that smokers have choices that will both satisfy their addiction to nicotine AND not impact other people in public places AND as a bonus, are not prohibited in public venues.

__________________
"You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people
can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad)