Thread: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...mprices19.html

You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impac...tion_jobs.html

In terms of living standards, I think immigration should be seen somewhere between the spectrum of a "zero sum game" and a "non-zero sum game". For example, there is $100 for one American, then an immigrant comes and there is $150 for the two of them to share, meaning the economy grows, but there is less money for the original American.

And in some ways, such as depressed wages, immigration can actually be a negative-sum game for workers (realize the lower prices from the lower cost of labor will only partially offset worker's lowered incomes, while the main benefits would go to landowners, the wealthy and retired).

While theoretically the number of jobs in an economy, the wealth, the posible growth, all are limitless, with regard to increasing number of workers, in actual practice within the framework of capitalism and land ownership inequality, there is not much more room for more jobs to be created. Remember it is far easier for low paying jobs to be created than decent paying jobs. There are currently many "unfilled" positions where an employer would be unwilling to pay enough to attract qualified applicants. While this can be seen as "limiting" the number of jobs somewhat, it also helps to maintain higher wages. Usually when immigrants come into our Western countries the jobs that are "created" for them are unpleasant low-paying jobs that no one else was willing to take before. While this may seem fine, it is actually problematic, as the presence of poor immigrants creates all sorts of extraneous costs onto the taxpayers. Society must also consider the place the children of immigrants will occupy. It is fine if immigrants willingly come to take low paying jobs, but their children likely will demand better treatment and better/higher paying jobs, and our societies must be prepared for that.

We should also recognize that immigrants tend to crowd into the cities, competing with people who already live there for places to live, driving up home prices and cost of living.

And it is quite likely that more poor minorities will mean affirmative action policies in the future that will take good jobs from whites to give to minorities, as has happened in South Africa.

Originally Posted by TRS

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...mprices19.html

Here's the Georgia experience.

"What we began hearing in mid- to late May was many of our migrant workers, they were not coming to Georgia," said Charles Hall, executive director of the Georgia Fruit & Vegetable Grower's Association. "Farmers are short on harvest labor 30 to 50 percent. You don't have a whole lot of window — that crop has to come out or it'll spoil."

I guess we might as well crack down and see what happens. Should be interesting either way.

Originally Posted by Lulz

Here's the Georgia experience.

"What we began hearing in mid- to late May was many of our migrant workers, they were not coming to Georgia," said Charles Hall, executive director of the Georgia Fruit & Vegetable Grower's Association. "Farmers are short on harvest labor 30 to 50 percent. You don't have a whole lot of window — that crop has to come out or it'll spoil."

I guess we might as well crack down and see what happens. Should be interesting either way.

Funny how pro-immigration says there here only for crop picking.

The truth is not that Americans are unwilling to work in these jobs, but that Americans are unwilling to work for the rock bottom wages impoverished minorities are willing to work for. Some economists say that more people will mean more jobs. But look at the poor immigrants living in your country. They do not have the money to create jobs. Most of the jobs they do create will be low paying jobs in the service sector, which will be filled by more immigrants. Who is going to take care of them all when they get older? American hospitals will need skilled health care workers willing to work for low wages. Where will they find people willing to go through long training programs and get medical degrees to work for low pay? They will bring in more doctors from India and nurses from the Philippines. These are the types of “jobs” that will be created. No, the more people, the more competition for scarce jobs, which will just drive down wages.

And what about all the children the illegals are having? Will they also only be taking the jobs Americans are “unwilling” to do? Or will they demand “affirmative action” policies? Their numbers are rapidly increasing. If, as in the case of California, 51% of the population will be Hispanic, does that mean 51% of the jobs, at all levels of a company, will have to go to Hispanics, because of affirmative action policies? (51% of California students are Hispanic, not even counting other minorities. These students are the future adults.) If you want to see what the future holds, look at the affirmative action policies in South Africa; there is a reason all the whites are fleeing.

What about educating the illegal's children? Consider this: it costs more money to educate two children every year than someone working a minimum wage job actually earns! It is very typical for Hispanic families to have five children. Even if all the illegals paid taxes (a large portion of them do not), it would still not cover the cost of educating their children, let alone all the other burdens they place on society, such as law enforcement.

Why is society creating more problems by bringing in more immigrants, when most of our young adults cannot even afford to move out of their parents house? I say the USA should solve its own problems before it brings in more! The upper class in Mexico has plenty of money, but Mexico does not want to help its own people. Why should Americans take care of all the poor that the Mexican government is unwilling to take care of?

Our multiracial society has enough racial tension as it is. Making it even more multiracial will just create more conflict.

It is not just low-skilled workers. I found this comment from an American on another internet site:

Given the rate at which jobs are being outsourced, I would strongly recommend that my grandchildren learn trades that require hands on work. I became a programmer in 1968 and if you had told me then that I would be disposable in 2000 I wouldn't have believed you. Unemployement in the high tech field is significantly higher than the general population largely due to people like Bill Gates lying to congress about the lack of American talent and the need to import cheap foreign workers.

I live in Mexico and the people I know who went north and worked got paid the same as their co-workers who were citizens. Some were even in government jobs where they paid income tax and FICA, too. I think the myth that it's all low-paid under the table work is perpetuated by deadbeats in the U.S. who have no desire to work.

I asked a friend working in a public hospital how many of her co-workers in the cafeteria were Mexicans or from other countries south. Her answer was, "All of them." When I asked why she thought that was, "When the hospital runs an ad in the paper, that who shows up." My friend worked in the hospital cafeteria for ten years making salads. If you don't speak English you're not upwardly mobile but if you do speak English and refuse to work you aren't upwardly mobile either.

Originally Posted by PatrickT

I asked a friend working in a public hospital how many of her co-workers in the cafeteria were Mexicans or from other countries south. Her answer was, "All of them." When I asked why she thought that was, "When the hospital runs an ad in the paper, that who shows up." My friend worked in the hospital cafeteria for ten years making salads.

Hospital cafeteria workers are the lowest paid of hospital employees. It is hard work and low wages (often not much more than minimum). Most hospitals tend to be concentrated in more populated areas with higher costs of living. Most of these cafeteria workers probably have trouble affording a place to live. No wonder Americans are not lining up to take these jobs. I have heard stories about Mexican cafeteria workers that kept showing up to work, even when they were dreadfully sick— for the simple fact they could not afford to take unpaid time off. This spreads the flu and cold to everyone else in the hospital, including patients with supressed immune systems.

I thought that was pretty obvious. Why should employers lower their prices when they can stamp all over the rughts of immigrants by keeping their prices the same and making an even bigger profit?